Lie becomes truth: Palestinians blamed for being oppressed, killed, and robbed of their land


 

Gaza smoke

By Craig McKee

Orwellian.

That’s how I can best describe in a single word the perpetual propaganda war that accompanies the oppression and repeated slaughters of Palestinian civilians by Israel. The victims are painted as terrorists; the oppressors are painted as victims who are just defending themselves.

Yes, I get it: Hamas is firing homemade rockets into Israel. This practice has killed 28 Israeli civilians since 2001. But how many Palestinians have the Israeli armed forces killed over those 13 years? How about the past 13 days?

Each Israeli death is a tragedy for those killed and their families. And I feel for those who are traumatized by the rocket attacks – however unlikely it is that they’ll actually be hurt by them. But stress felt by Israelis over these rockets is hardly comparable to massacres unleashed on the Palestinians in Gaza three times in the past five years not to mention the theft of land and denial of basic rights they have endured for the past 67 years.

How do you suppose innocent civilians in Gaza are feeling when they try to go to sleep at night without knowing if they’ll even wake up? As the death toll in the recent assault reaches 1,100, mostly civilians and about a quarter of these children, I find myself incapable of comprehending how people can continue to claim that this is self-defense. I guess if you say it often enough …

The Palestinians are victims of a brutal and illegal occupation of their land by Israel. They are painted as aggressors and terrorists even as their homes, schools, hospitals, and mosques in Gaza are destroyed in an aerial assault and ground invasion that shows no signs of abating (despite a ceasefire the weekend before last that allowed Gaza’s beleaguered residents to dig out and to remove their dead).

But no matter how many people are killed, the Israel supporters always bring the story back to Hamas. According to them, all the atrocities that are happening are the fault of Hamas. Scarcely one pro-Israel comment I’ve seen in the last two weeks hasn’t included mention of them. If you ask about the slaughter of children, the answer is always that Hamas is killing them. Destruction of Gaza’s only power plant? Hamas. This is propaganda; this is spin.

And the latest slaughter is nothing new. To justify killing thousands in retaliation for rocket fire (that has killed three Israelis during the current conflict) is a complete inversion of reality. And to start this latest assault based on the allegation that Hamas killed three Israeli teenagers – now admitted to have no basis in fact – is nothing less than deliberate deception.

We hear repeatedly about Hamas storing weapons in densely populated areas so that civilians are forced to serve as “human shields.” I’m not sure where in Gaza one would store weapons that weren’t near or among civilians. But even if one accepts some criticism of Hamas’s tactics, my question would be, what options do the Palestinian people have if they are not willing to accept the status quo in Gaza? Many see Hamas as the only option to challenge the brutal blockade and siege of the embattled and courageous Palestinian people.

In April, Hamas signed a reconciliation “unity” deal with Fatah, leading many to see the timing of the attacks on Gaza as anything but coincidental. In fact, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said just last week that he sees the Israeli offensive in Gaza as a direct effort to destroy the unity government.

 

Palestinians denied basic human rights

I believe that all human beings have equal value and an equal right to live in freedom accompanied by peace and social justice. But it doesn’t seem that the state of Israel agrees. This is clear from the fact that Palestinians do not have anything close to equal rights. The residents of Gaza live under a punitive military blockade that prevents them from enjoying the kind of life that most us would take for granted.

And the people of the West Bank, not represented by Hamas, are also denied their very basic human rights by this same oppressive government that seems intent on driving them out of existence.  Palestinians endure poverty, discrimination, and treatment that would be much more roundly attacked by North American governments if it were happening in any other part of the world. Palestinian land is stolen and their homes bulldozed to make room for illegal Israeli settlements. These settlements are off limits to Palestinians as are the highways that connect them.

A documentary called Stone Cold Justice, aired in February by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, deals with the routine arrest of children in the West Bank for alleged crimes like throwing stones (this was the subject of a 2013 Unicef report called “Children in Israeli Military Detention“). Some of these children are held without charge or trial for weeks, and their cases are handled by military courts, not civilian ones as would be the case with Israeli children. Some are coerced into signing confessions they don’t even understand, just so they can go home. These children are also questioned to gain intelligence about what their parents or others in their neighborhood are doing.

One arrest captured by the Australian crew was of a five-year-old boy who had been accused by one Jewish settler of throwing stones. The child was crying as he was loaded into a vehicle and taken away. He was interrogated and held for two hours before being released.

In the documentary we see Palestinian children having to be escorted to school by Israeli soldiers so that they won’t be attacked by Jewish settlers. One day the children had to make the trip without their military escort, and instead a very kind Jewish man volunteered to take them. This was the most touching moment in the film. This man looked at these young Palestinians and saw innocent children and not enemies. I believe there are many more like him: I just wish that those people were running the country.

I’ve been saddened in recent days by the response I’ve received from some friends and acquaintances over recent Facebook posts I’ve made about the Israeli assault on Gaza. The subsequent debates have been exhausting and depressing. Even though speaking out about this topic can make for awkwardness with these friends, I cannot let that stop me from speaking what I believe to be the truth. If people in Gaza can cope with their homes and loved ones being blown to bits, then I can handle a bit of tension and a few personal attacks.

But I refuse to allow anyone to label me anti-Semitic simply because I am harshly critical of Israel. This conflation of anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel is disgusting and wrong. And frankly, it is a propaganda tactic used to intimidate people from standing up for what is right.

In an article in the Jerusalem Post, Israeli Knesset Member Shimon Ohayon says that “anti-Zionism is the new anti-Semitism.” The message is obvious: if you criticize Israel or Zionism you will be branded as anti-Semitic. In the same article, Israeli Jewish Congress president Vladimir Sloutsker used another one of these tactics when he linked the protests in Europe over Gaza to a potential Holocaust.

“Never before since the Holocaust, have we seen such a situation as today,” he said. “We are potentially looking at the beginning of another Holocaust now.”

There aren’t many occasions where I find myself quoting a current or past president of the United States – unless I’m pointing out their lies or hypocrisy. But Jimmy Carter had it right when he said that the occupation of Palestinian land by Israel “is one of the worst examples of human rights deprivation that I know.”

In an interview with MSNBC about his 2006 book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, he stated: “What is being done to the Palestinians is horrendous by the occupying power, which is Israel. They’ve taken away all the basic human rights of the Palestinians, as was done in South Africa against the blacks.”

Carter said that this action is “based on the desire of a minority of Israelis to acquire land that belongs to the Palestinians and to retain that land and to exclude the Palestinians from their own property and to subjugate them so that they can’t arouse and demonstrate their disapproval of being robbed of their own property.”

You can’t get much clearer than that. He states directly that the actions by Israel keep the Palestinians from having a valid avenue for protesting what is being done to them. So what are they then to do? I wish they weren’t using homemade rockets to make their point, but what is the alternative? Carter points out that no suicide bomb attacks have been initiated by Hamas against Israeli citizens since 2004.

Brooke Goldstein, director of the pro-Israeli Lawfare Project (Their slogan is “Protecting against the politicization of human rights”), was interviewed by Fox News and made the incredible statement that Hamas was part of the Islamic extremist effort that was also behind 9/11. This is beyond false, it is a lie, an insulting lie.

In fact, if I had to pick one word to describe this kind of propaganda, and the propaganda that paints the Palestinians as the aggressors in this latest siege, I’d go right back to the beginning of this article.

355 comments

  1. Thanks Craig. This needs to be said!

    I’ll point people to your article when they try to convince me that God’s Chosen People are under attack and how “Israel has the right to defend herself.”

    1. So for more than 60 years the Devil huffed and puffed ’till he blew his disguise clean off and stands revealed as “Israel”.

      No, I refuse to recognize “Israel” – it is in all reality occupied Palestine.
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      1. “Are you saying that Israel does NOT have the right to defend itself?”
        ~Bob Sims

        No Bob, I am saying that it is a lie to call it defense.

        I am saying that “Israel” is an illegitimate state superimposed upon Palestine. I am saying that “Israel” is a murderous racist monster that should never have been instated.

        I am saying that it is “Israel” itself that is a complete lie.

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        1. We know that Israel exists, and it is NOT going away anytime soon, if at all, only time will tell. With that being the case, what is it that Israel should do when attacked by about 3500 rockets?

        2. “I am saying that “Israel” is a murderous racist monster that should never have been ‘instated.’ (Did you mean “instituted?”)

          Regardless of whether it should have, or should not have, been instituted, the simple fact remains that it does exist and has no plans to go away. So, bringing up yesterday’s news won’t solve this issue. That being the case, what is the solution, and in the meantime, does Israel have the right to defend itself? I am looking for answers, not personal attacks.

          1. No I meant ‘instated’, Israel is not an “institution” [like the UN] Israel is called a “state”.

            The fact that psychotic murderers stalk the streets of any city is a simple fact, and they have no plans to go away. That being the case, what is the solution, and in the meantime, do psycho-killers have the right to defend themselves? Should people simply wait to be murdered? Should law enforcement simply stand down because “that’s the way it is”?

            Bringing up yesterdays news, that shows an image of the murderer of a little old lady in Brooklyn Heights, asking for leads won’t solve the problem. Just ignore it, maybe he won’t strike again.

            No, you’re not looking for answers Bob, you’re looking for a brain.
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          1. Secular my ass Ben. Israel is a Zionist state, in fact a theocracy, and far from “democratic” for any but the tribe.
            Go on with your slur of “antisemitism” it has lost the sting it once might have had.

            Zionism isn’t even Judaic at its core, it is a credo of “Might makes Right”, that “Ends justify the Means.” It is Machiavellian realpolitik bullshit.
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          1. Amy, part of this “truth” you speak of is the answers to solving the problems at hand, but so far I have seen none offered, only attacks.

        1. Then I ask you the same question: What is it that Israel should do when attacked by about 3500 rockets? So far, I have found no answers here on this post.

        2. And, what then, should have been the appropriate response to the 3500 rocket attacks? It seems that everyone here wants to condemn Israel, but has no answers to legitimate questions.

          1. “And, what then, should have been the appropriate response to the 3500 rocket attacks?”~Sims

            The appropriate response would be and still is to abide by international law, for Israel to make arrangements to withdraw to the pre-1966 borders and make amends to the Palestinian peoples by extending the hand of peace and reconstruction of the property and land the Israel has stolen.

            Responding to the rocket attacks which are completely ineffective and have injured or killed less Israelis that those in traffic accidents, with massive attacks against the infrastructure of Gaza, killing thousands of Palestinians and making homeless tens of thousands more – creating a vast humanitarian crisis, is only a maniac’s solution. And only other maniacs cannot see this. And maniacs who apologize for other maniacs and their crimes are accessories after the fact.

            YOU Sims are such an accessory after the fact, and as such must be condemned as strongly as the homicidal maniacs that have stolen Palestine.
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      2. Bob
        No, Big bully Israel does not have the right to defend itself.
        why?
        Because its not Israel’s land.
        There, I answered your question. It’s simply unfair what Israel is doing. The made up number of 3500 rockets you mentioned, is no match to what very expensive phosphorus bombs raining down on innocent school children in Palestine do.
        Israel does not want peace Bob. The Zionist gov of Israel wants complete hegemony over the region. Not even nature, is as unethical as this. No matter the religious justification. This has nothing to do with religion.
        ps
        Hating Palestine is anti Semitic.

        1. I think you have derived a bit from reality there. There has never been a Palestinian state in the history of mankind, but the state of Israel is the 4th Jewish state/kingdom all the same. Furthermore, in the area that is now Israel, with the absence of Jewish, virtually NOBODY lived there. What we now call Palestinians are in fact Syrian and Jordanian arabs who moved into the West Bank area of Jordan starting early 19th century. Back then, they were simply called Arabs and after World War 2 they were called Jordanians as that was the country where they were living between 1948 and 1967. Funny enough nobody even mentioned the creation of a Palestinian state between 1948 and 1967 – only when Israel conquered the West Bank there was suddenly talk of a Palestinian state – a fictional state only created in an effort to boost Palestinian propaganda. And it worked as I have seen.

      3. Overly defending by using extra force and enjoying killing of your owners ..Palestinians. remember Israel is the country with no land . It is true and always be true no matter how much u hot backed by EU and others. Shamir on Israel.. the thief.. the robbers. The murderers.. the bullies.

    2. I am thankful for the articles that I find here on Truth and Shadows, and I come here often to gather ideas and thoughts on various subjects. I am here to ask questions first, and then to consider the answers I receive. The first one today is this: Does Israel have the right to defend itself against the attacks of Hamas? If “yes,” then in what way? If “no,” then why not?

      1. Bob, Israel’s surest and only lasting defense against Hamas and any other Palestinians is to categorically pledge to extend the hand of friendship and to treat Palestinians as equals and threat them and their demands for a viable, continuous, and mutually-agreed-upon reasonable share of the land and free and open access in and out of it with seriousness, respect, and sympathy in a guaranteed peace.

        1. James, I agree with you, but I find myself repeating myself again since the reply you gave deserves a response, but no mention was made of my questions: Does Israel have the right to defend itself against the attacks of Hamas? If “yes,” then in what way? If “no,” then why not?

      2. “I am thankful for the articles that I find here on Truth and Shadows, and I come here often to gather ideas and thoughts on various subjects.”~Sims

        Yes indeed Bob, you are thankful to find a target for your Hasbara propaganda campaigning, and you come here to scout out just what thread might offer you the greatest opportunity to begin you maniacal PR.

        You ask if Israel has the right to defend itself. The question is bullshit. Israel has been the aggressor for more than 60 years, there is not a single act that Israel can make that is not aggression, unless it is a withdrawal from Palestine. There can be no justice in a stolen land.
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      1. “Are you saying that what Hamas is doing is NOT wrong?”~Bob Sims
        , , , , , , , , ,

        Are YOU saying that what “Israel” is doing is NOT wrong?

        “Israel” is not the victim here, they are clearly the aggressor. They began their agenda with terrorism; note the King David Hotel. This is the “Israeli” modus operendi, as well as playing victim in staged provocations.

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        1. Hybrid, first of all, I was not commenting to you, and you cannot speak for another. However, with that said, all you did was to rephrase my question without giving an answer to my question, thus attempting to answer a question with another question, a tactic I cannot respect.

      2. Bob sims, wake up from your delusional fantasy world. Use your god-given brain to do some homework.
        – Hamas was formed in 1987.
        – Sabra and Shatilla refugee camp massacre was done under the evil hand of Ariel Sharon in September 1982.
        Now tell me who have been done countless of wrong acts against humanity for more than 60 years now?

        1. Amy, I am only asking questions, but being attacked for doing so, and now you take up the personal attack. What delusional fantasy world do you refer to? Can you verbalize your thoughts rationally, or will you merely continue the verbal abuse. I have only asked questions, looking for answers, but you seem to fail to see that. So, want to try again?

          1. Oh im sorry that you took it the negative way. Apologize. So leave the first part. Just focus on the true facts that i gave you. Will you, Bob?

          2. Actually, when i come to think of it, its really funny that Jews are allowed to verbally and physically mistreat other races but we gentiles/goyims cant do the same right back at jews, not even a lil tiny bit. When gentiles have their own say against jews, jews quickly take out the anti-semitic card. When jews badly condemn and mistreat gentiles, we cant even do anything to resist because that’s “anti-semitism”. We cant attack you, but you can always attack us because of that “God-chosen” people propaganda. Pppffff…
            I told you to wake up from your delusional fantasy world – attack on you.
            You call gentiles Israeli haters – its OK. not an act of attack on gentiles.

            You see Bob…you and your most beloved Israel are the real problem to the world.
            Oh, dont forget to say thank you to Nazi Germany for the transferring agreement that was made in 1933 between Nazi and a german zionist organization to transfer jewish assets and emigrants to Palestine to make sure that your generations could continue to live till these days.
            Wait…why would Hitler even care to make an agreement with german zionist jews if he really hated jews in the first place, huh? Go figure.

  2. “In an article in the Jerusalem Post, Israeli Knesset Member Shimon Ohayon says that “anti-Zionism is the new anti-Semitism.” The message is obvious: if you criticize Israel or Zionism you will be branded as anti-Semitic”

    And the irony is that one of the lessons of the Jewish holocaust is to not remain silent when you see injustice committed.

    Never again! (unless you’re Palestinian)

      1. Craig, can you explain what you specifically mean by “the irony is massive?” And what do you see as a possible answer to these ills, including an answer to my unanswered question: What should Israel do when attacked by 3500 rockets? No one seems to want to answer this question.

    1. Peter, you have said nothing. What answers do you have to the problem besides speaking out against them? What should Israel do when attacked by 3500 rockets? I have yet to read even one answer here so far.

        1. Craig, since you wrote this most biased article, your ego is involved, and you will continue to defend it against all comers, as this is how the human brain works. With that said, I have come here to ask questions and to evaluate the answers, not get involved in personal attacks. My first question has been: What should Israel do when 3500 rockets are launched at them. I am still waiting for a rational answer from someone, anyone.

          1. Sims,

            You are completely full of shit, claiming you are “still waiting for a rational answer from someone, anyone.”

            You came here to defend the indefensible, you are a warmonger and agent for the terrorist state of Israel, you are as transparent as a painted street-walking whore as to your intent.

            This mantra of “3500 rockets” is just tripe from the current Hasbara manual.
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      1. It appears to me Mr Sims, that you are ignorant of real history. It appears to me that you are defending the indefensible, a terror state on a murderous rampage. It also appears quite obvious that “Israel” has a “one-sided truth” that is driven by a PR machine that has a monopoly on the main stream press, and that countering this pernicious bullshit is the duty of all lucid, reasonable and knowledgeable human beings.

        It is interesting to see a harassing hasbara apologist show up here on this page. It will be even more interesting to see what sort of apologia you will attempt to pass by us here.
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        1. Hybrid, once again you choose to make personal attacks, rather than answer the actual questions being asked. I am not here to continue a discussion about yesterday’s news, as you seem hell bent on doing. I am not here to discuss history; I am only here to ask questions about TODAY, questions you deliberately fail to address, such as: What should Israel do when assailed by some 3500 rockets.

          And where do you come up with the idea that I am defending anyone by asking rational questions? You do nothing but attack someone that only asks questions and is looking for solutions, not attacks. You are doing this site a grave injustice by your know-it-all attitude and snide remarks.

    1. Moses, this was only an excellent article if you like obvious bias. This article had several things wrong with it in that respect. I am looking for Truth, not bias; for answers, not attacks.

  3. Thank you Craig for tackling this issue. I have been following it since it bloomed again, and further back to Sabra and Shatila in 1982, which smacked my eyes wide open about the terror state of Israel.

    In just this most recent episode;
    “Israeli air, sea and ground attacks have killed some 1,036 Palestinians, mainly civilians and including many children, Gaza officials say. Israel says 43 of its soldiers have died, along with three civilians killed by rocket and mortar fire from Gaza.”~Reuters – 7/28/2014

    But the US and Israel insist it is Hamas that must disarm, not Israel….WTF? Take away their bottle rockets and let Israel keep building it’s US supplied space aged war machine?
    Fucking insanity.

    If people really understood the complete lie of “Israel”, all it would take is the vomit of world disgust to bury this illegitimate entity.

    It is times such as this that I must remind yet again that all should read Douglas Reed’s THE CONTROVERSY OF ZION – for the most complete history of this “Chosen People” bullshit and when and where it all started.
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        1. It’s like raping a woman and saying that if she doesn’t stop fighting back such abuse, that there is no hope for peace.
          Ridiculous! I can only hope for the day when Israel is dismantled and Palestine is back.
          Neither I, nor do the Palestinians want all Israelis dead. They want their homes and land back. They want their deserved rights as human beings.
          Zionists are the absolute scum of the earth with no moral sense whatsoever.

          1. I can’t help but wonder if you know the difference between Zionists and an average Jew that only wants to be left alone and get on with their life. The same thing can be said about those who refer to all Americans as Imperialists, while ignoring how everyday middle class Americans just want the same thing that the average middle class Jew wants. Same thing could be said about the Muslims.

    1. Calling them “bottle rockets” is a grave distortion of the truth. These rockets kill people. It’s called an attack.

      1. “Calling them “bottle rockets” is a grave distortion of the truth. These rockets kill people. It’s called an attack.”~Bob Sims

        Mr Sims, you must be delusional to compare one of these bottle rockets to the types of massive ordinance being rained upon Gaza by “Israel”. It is obscene to compare the deaths due to such homemade rockets to the massive casualties taking place in Gaza, to the massive casualties of the Palestinians compared to the “Israeli” casualties throughout this entire burlesque called “the state of Israel”.

        Rocks can kill people, bare hands can kill people. What is being pointed out here is the clear and blatant disproportion of the martial powers of the two parties of this dispute. That you are willfully blind to such is quite obvious.
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    2. Hybrid, I find it repulsive the hatred and bias you continue to show, with no answers even attempted, only attacks. I am NOT a Jew lover, but I do hate the concept of Zionism, but my questions here are about a very specific issue that could apply to anyone in this situation that unfortunately exists. What answers do you have, and please omit the history lesson, as this 2014.

      1. “What answers do you have, and please omit the history lesson, as this 2014.”

        Sims, it did not get to 2014 without going through the intervening period of time.
        “Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.”
        ~George Santayana

        Do you not get that?
        You ignore history at your own peril, just as the Israelis do.

        The answer? As American citizens INSIST – DEMAND that Israel be given no further military assistance from this nation. Insist that Israel deal in good faith rather than dealing in death, destruction and genocide.

        You say you deplore Zionism? What hypocrisy. Israel is the manifestation of Zionism, and you support this bogus claim of their ‘right to exist’ when what their aim, most obviously is to take all of Palestine for the “Jewish State” and to hell with the original inhabitants.

        And you turn around and call me a “hater” … you are speaking psychobabble – absolute Orwellian Newspeak bullshit.

        Arguing with ignorant dolts like you is useless. You do not listen to the answers nor to reason. Go bang your empty skull on some other wall than this one.
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  4. Orwellian? Is anyone surprised? It is an error to expect non-Orwellian reporting from any mass medium that has promoted the mythical attribution of 9/11 to Osama bin Laden’s fanatical hijackers.

    Building on this point, one remarkable yet hardly noticed aspect of the Palestinian leaders’ reaction to the Israeli attacks is their failure to simply promote a sensible 9/11 education in the media, mosques and schools they control. Instead of playing the role of eternal victims of Israeli heavy-handedness, they could publicly frame it in the context that since the U.S. government largely exists to terrorize its population, it is normal, albeit undesirable, that it supports arbitrary warmongering abroad, in this case against the Palestinian population.

    In the post-9/11 world, the U.S. military and its allies, including the IDF, cannot wage war unilaterally. Their targets can preempt it by simply regularly promoting 9/11 Truth on their TV stations and in their other institutions. As long as ordinary Palestinians keep buying their rulers’ mantra that they are powerless to prevent Israeli aggression, they expose themselves to more aggression, just like the U.S. people expose themselves to more false flags as long as they keep buying their rulers’ mantra that they are powerless to prevent the next domestic act of terror.

    The reverse truth is that if the Palestinian public, or the U.S. public, or some other large homogeneous group of people, start to litmus-test their rulers per their affirmation of 9/11’s essence, they may find that many of their problems evaporate. But this is another story.

    Love,

  5. How wrong does anyone have to be before it means anything?
    The Israeli, forged in the furnaces of Dachau Auschwitz and Warsaw, added to by the influx of immigrant European Mafyia , now exercises the same merciless and fascist rage toward the helpless of GAZA.
    The truth/lie script is being written and followed by deranged men/women with a penchant for killing.

    BUT what ever Israel intends to gain from the murder we are forced to witness, that Palestine – the children – are being forced to endure, will never gain fruit. For the soul is gone from it, as was foretold;

    although, as history proves,
    that never stopped anyone from pulling the trigger .

      1. I am saying Bob, that it is those who bomb the schools who are the guilty party. You are trying to conflate guilt to the victims being bombed with your Orwellian doublethink rhetoric.

        You are a fool to try to make your twisted maniacal argumentation here among the rational and knowledgeable readership of this blog. We have heard enough of this garbage from your despotic masters.
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        1. Hybrid, your personal attacks just never stop, do they? You continue to twist words around and constantly come up with new ones to help spew your hatred.

          For example: “You are trying to conflate guilt to the victims being bombed with your Orwellian doublethink rhetoric.”

          Where did I do such a thing? You know better, but you prefer lies and distortions to truth. Only you have used the word “victims” or “guilt,” and the only rhetoric here is from you. I state my case once more: I am here to ask questions and sort through answers, but so far, my questions have no answers; in exchange for questions, all I get are personal attacks from the hypocrites, such as yourself, hate-filled hypocrites with no answers.

      2. Let us say for a second that they did have bombs. No evidence whatsoever has been found for this, but let’s just say it was the case. Even so, it is inexcusable to blow up innocents over that. The fault would still be entirely on Israel for launching missiles at innocents. No innocents would be dead if Israel didn’t launch such missiles.

        1. Jesse, “Let us say for a second that they did have bombs. No evidence whatsoever has been found for this, but let’s just say it was the case.”

          Pray tell, what are you talking about? Are you talking about rockets, or what?
          In any case, what would you have Isreal do when assailed by 3500 rockets? Do you have an answer, or do you just want to mouth off?

  6. I am disgusted by the Israeli governments actions and have been for a long time. Their government reminds me a lot of my own here in the USA, totally corrupt, power mad, brutal, expansionist, and completely divorced from the will of the people. I am sure that if the truth were told most intelligent Israeli citizens are appalled by the actions of their government and do not in any way shape or form support them. This is similar to the situation here in the USA where our illegitimate government takes unilateral action without the consent of the governed and in fact takes action in direct contravention of the will of the people. So in every metric that matters the USA is a fascist dictatorship and I believe the same thing is true of Israel. Personally I do not know very many actual Israeli citizens so my statements are an educated guess on my part as to their attitudes towards their own illegitimate fascist regime. I do think it is fair to say that among those Israeli’s who are in favor of what their government is doing most of them are brainwashed by their own mass media manipulation and propaganda.

    The bottom line for me is simple the people of Israel themselves have to be among the first ones to lead the way in stopping this violence, they have to directly confront their own illegitimate government and force them out of power. We here in the USA have to do the same or we are accomplice to the evil they are doing all over the world.

    As for the Palestinian people I can only help them with my strong words from here in California and my effort to force our government here to stop all funding for Israel which will help to dry up their supply of weapons. I think if I were in the Palestinians shoes I would be fighting back but hopefully in the smartest possible way which in my opinion is the following plan.

    1. Face the reality of the enemies superior military power and the reality that winning a violent war against them is impossible. Facing that reality is crucial before the next part of the plan can happen.

    2. Stop all aggression of ANY kind against Israel or it’s citizens and make it public that you are doing so. This forces them into a very difficult position because they will be seen as the aggressors from that point on and they will not be able to spin their aggression even in their own propaganda media. Their support base in the world will begin to rapidly crumble. So ironically by not violently fighting back the Palestinians can deal a very effective blow against Israel and hurt them more than 10,000 rockets ever could. If the USA was forced to cease funding the Israeli government due to world wide outcry Israel loses over 3 billion dollars a year. THAT will hurt them and very badly too.

    3. Refuse to cooperate with Israel in any way shape or form. Do not submit to any of their demands, do not pay them a cent for any reason, do not buy any of their products, do not comply with their unjust rules. When I say do not comply I mean to do it in the same way Gandhi did with the British. Force them to arrest you in mass and then continue to refuse to comply. This will take real bravery on your part to hold back your totally justified anger and rage. Start world wide boycott campaigns of Israeli products and companies on the internet. Many people throughout the world will help you including me. I already boycott Israeli products and companies.

    4. Crucially you must find a way to get real reports of what is really happening in Gaza out to the wider world on a regular basis. They currently have an advantage in the battle for the hearts and minds of the worlds people but this advantage is easy to take away and is slipping from their grasp even now. Hold cameras up in their faces instead of guns and do it bravely and refuse to lower them. GET THE FOOTAGE OUT to the world any way you can. Again this is something many people across the world will help you with. In a very real sense anyone the Israeli’s kill who is holding a camera and not a gun hurts Israel very badly. Recognize that they are killing you anyway and recognize that you cannot effectively kill them in response and make the best tactical and logical decision you can and use their aggression against them by showing it to the world. This is the way to win and it is also the only way you can win because militarily you are way outmatched. Face this truth and find out why Gandhi was able to defeat the British empire without firing a single shot. He won that war, make no mistake, he won. You can win also IF you use the same tactics he did.

    5. Show the world that the Israeli government are the real Nazi’s of today and that you are their victims. That is the key to your victory. This is what the Israeli government truly fears you will do and they are right to be afraid of this. In many places and among many people the Israeli government is already seen as a Nazi like regime. Make their fears come true by exposing that they really are filthy fascist brutal Nazi’s.

    You have more support of the people of the world than you realize and that support would grow ten fold if as a people you do what Gandhi did. I want you to win and I want you to have happy plentiful lives free from the oppression you are enduring today. I will from here fight on your behalf as much as I can. Every person I encounter in person or on the internet who supports Israels actions against you will get an earful of why they are wrong from me. Every Israeli company or product will be boycotted by me (something I am already doing). Every video or report from the Palestinian people showing the brutality of Israel will be posted and promoted by me. I will do everything I can to help you defeat their propaganda everywhere I see it. I wish all the best to the Palestinian people and it is my sincere hope that you all embrace this path to victory. In the end you could not only win this fight with Israel but you could also cripple other evil regimes throughout the world that are oppressing other people. Your courage can light the way for others all over the world. Turn your agony into controlled non violent action against them and WIN!!!

    Make it clear by your actions that you are against the illegitimate and fascist Israeli government and NOT the Jewish people themselves. You will find many Jews as your allies if you follow Gandhi’s path.

    1. My concern is that simply stopping all aggressive actions, like firing rockets, will not necessarily lead into anything other than a re-establishment of the status quo. Israel would probably stop the attack (not because they’d want to but because public opinion would make any other course impractical), and then things would go on as they were. I think Hamas, whether rightly or wrongly, is trying to force the issue to bring this situation to the world’s attention. This comes, of course, at a terrible cost. But I wonder what their options are if they want to provoke change?

      1. Their options are the same as Gandhi’s were with the British. If the Palestinians moved forward with a non violent plan to get Israel out of a position of power over them many people from all over the world including many Jews would help them and I believe they would eventually win their freedom. I agree Israel would stop their slaughter if Hamas stopped firing rockets however the Palestinians do not need to nor should they stop their campaign against their oppressors. They simply shift their resistance into a non violent form which will be far more effective anyway towards getting them what they want. They want Israel to have no say in their lives, no control over them. They want to be free of Israeli rule correct? So long as they focus on their freedom as opposed to Israeli destruction they will gain support and will eventually win what they want. If they continue to fight a fight they cannot win using violence they will not only lose the fight and their lives and their land but they will lose any chance of gaining what they really want which is freedom from Israeli rule. Gandhi did not fight the British he simply made it impossible for them to control India so they had no choice but to leave. Hamas is part of the problem they are NOT the solution.

        1. Ruffadam, sounds good. But there’s a big difference between the British Empire overlords and Israel, in that the Zionists who rule Israel (and unfortunately Israeli public opinion) view it as an existential struggle for the Jewish State entity they have fought all challengers to keep alive since the 1940s if not before. In order for Hamas to achieve their freedom from Israeli control, or anything close to that, they would have to renounce the right to return and their claim on any land besides the squalid and isolated little bantustans — a lot like Indian reservations except they have no free passage off — that the Jewish State has already set aside for their camps. If that’s enough for them, then, sure! Very unfortunately, the global powers-that-be seem unlikely to back them for anything more anytime soon.

        2. “Hamas is part of the problem they are NOT the solution.”~Adam Ruff

          I am dubious of this whole line of thinking. I am also doubtful of this whole “Gandhi” approach as well.

          The reason that “Israel” struck at this time is because Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Org has come to an agreement of terms. They have united in their plan for ending the occupation.
          Anyone who believes that the Zionists wouldn’t put a bullet through the head of a “Palestinian Gandhi” is daydreaming.

          The liability and blame are squarely in the court of Amerika and Israel.
          You know what a false flag is as well as I do Adam. If Hamas wasn’t firing rockets into Israel, the IDF would do it themselves, and may already be doing so.

          Full Spectrum Resistance is essential at this point from my perspective.
          \\][//

            1. The facts Sims, are in the history that you continue to reject as relevant.
              I offer you the facts, and you say it’s “yesterdays news”.
              You are an obvious provocateur, and your cheesy posing fools no one here.
              \\][//

      2. “But I wonder what their options are if they want to provoke change?”

        I guess we will never know as long as they keep firing rockets and demand the end of Israel, which is a dream they need to wake up from.

      3. Craig, where do I start? No, nothing is guaranteed to change by Hamas stopping the rocket attacks, but what is guaranteed is that by continuing the rocket attacks will only lead to more death and destruction, and for what purpose? Hamas has to go or there will never be any peace, certainly not as long as their purpose is to eliminate Israel. Why is this so difficult to understand?

        1. Craig, if you think my remarks are meaningless, then you are not paying attention. I have asked the same question over and over, all to no avail, as no one will give an answer, and you call my unanswered questions meaningless? Up to now, I have had only the highest respect for T & S, so please don’t cause me to regret it.

          1. I did not say your remarks were meaningless, I said they were vague. Perhaps you were not paying attention. With your recent flood of comments it’s hard to know where to respond.

            I’m sure that you also realize that I just posted a new article, and I was working on that rather than getting back into the Gaza/Israel discussion to respond to you. This latter topic is one that I’ve argued for several weeks now, in two articles here and in dozens of Facebook debates. I’ve heard all the same arguments repeated about the rockets and Israel’s right to defend itself. All of my questions about the rights of Palestinians got short shrift or were ignored completely. I’m not sure I want to go through the whole production again, but I will say this: the Palestinians are treated like much less than second-class citizens by Israel. Their homes are destroyed and their land stolen. I would suggest that returning to them what has been taken and giving the full human rights that any of us expect to have would be a good start towards peace. But all the supporters of Israel seem to want to do is talk about rockets, which killed two Israeli civilians since the current slaughter began several weeks ago. That’s nearly 2,000 dead Palestinians and two Israelis. I’m not counting the soldiers in that calculation. You can chalk this whole conflict up to Hamas but the problem existed long before they even came into existence.

      1. Dear Mr. Sims,

        You wrote to Mr. Ruff:

        You might want to shorten your future rants so they aren’t quite so boring.

        Although Mr. Ruff has not lost any love over me on other things, I thought Mr. Ruff’s comment was pretty good and just the right length to get his point across. It demonstrated that he put some thought and effort into it.

        Your 144 character Twitter-style tweats shot-gunned all over the discussion, Mr. Sims? Not so much.

        At least Mr. Ruff’s comment is easy to scroll over and ignore if it really was “quite so boring.”

        I think your tweats, Mr. Sims, and what substance they might have indicate an inability on your part to engage in conversation in a meaningful way, because you didn’t address a single thing that Mr. Ruff wrote. So you pull an inappropriate “Israel-hating card” for which you’ll rightly get creamed.

        Just a thought.

        //

          1. Dear Mr. Sims,

            So noted. I wonder where Mr. Rogue is?

            Rather than threading your comments of today into comments from end of last month, here’s some advice.

            Copy the words of a participant to whom you want to respond and paste them into another application, like Notepad or Word. [It can be helpful to copy time stamps and URLs at the same time.] Save this as a source file. Then save it again as the starting point for your response. Put appropriate formatting around the words quoted from others. [I use <blockquote></blockquote> to delineate the words of others, although “” and/or <i></i> can work well too.] Then author your response in between the quoted passages. Save it. Then copy this response and paste it in as a new comment.

            Repeat for each participant to whom you want to respond.

            The point is, you’re coming across as “spamming the forum” with your rapid fire, twitter-style comments all over the place.

            Be patient. Focus. Gather and then take your time authoring your response. It isn’t as if anybody has been waiting with baited breath for your words; they’re already two articles down the road.

            //

            1. Senor, I most appreciate your comments, I really do, so unlike this Rogue character who attacks everyone he dislikes. I have come here for ideas as to the possible solution of this mideast horror, but no one has offered a rational response, and that really bothers me. I am always looking for truth, wherever it may be hiding, but I am not finding it here, thus I am frustrated and I don’t mind letting it be shown. Also, I am new to these things they call posts and threads, and not aware of all the finer points that you have tried to show me just now. It will take awhile for me to let it all sink in, but again, thank you for your comments.

    2. RuffAdam, I congratulate you for being the only one here so far that has even offered a solution to this terrible problem. Others have only offered rhetoric and history lessons, but no answers. What is worse, some have done nothing but attack me for asking questions, and begging for answers, so you are like a sudden shot of sunlight on a dark day. I don’t agree with all you have offered, but I appreciate, and respect, the fact that you spoke out. Hopefully, others here will get the message as well, but I have reason to doubt that most will, as their hatred is too great to consider anything approaching rational thought.

  7. I am writing the following for some friends trying to get me involved in protesting at the federal building in LA but I thought it could be posted here as well so that the ideas in here could possibly catch on elsewhere.

    Perhaps a good place to start helping Gaza is a boycott of Starbucks. Starbucks CEO is none other than Howard Shultz who has a bio on Wikipedia (an untrusted site to be sure) which says the following about him:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Schultz
    “Chairman Howard Shultz is staunchly pro-Israel. In 1998, the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah gave him “The Israel 50th Anniversary Friend of Zion Tribute Award” for “playing a key role in promoting a close alliance between the United States and Israel.” In 2002, Israel’s Foreign Ministry praised him for being key to the country’s long-term PR success, through his provocative speeches accusing Palestinians of terrorism, calling intifada resistance anti-semitism, asking Americans to back Israel against a common enemy, and sponsoring fund raisers for Israeli causes.”

    Perhaps it is time for people concerned about Gaza to pass out literature and information in front of Starbucks locations encouraging a boycott all over the world? That would be far more effective than holding signs in front of the federal building in Los Angeles don’t you think?

    Westfield shopping malls are owned by the Lowy family who co-owned the World Trade center along with Larry Silverstein. The Lowy’s along with lucky Larry himself a Zionist supremacist profited handsomely from 9/11. Perhaps it is time to stage protests in front of Westfield shopping malls instead of the federal building in LA?

    Check out Frank Lowy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lowy and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowy_Institute_for_International_Policy

    Note that his son Peter along with his other son now run Westfield. Peter is or was on the board of directors for the (SWC) Simon Wiesenthal Institute AND the Rand corporation. The SWC was instrumental in attacking Richard Gage as promoting hate and terrorist groups in front of congress as documented here by me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r2Z8YTIeGU

    See these are the real people behind the Israeli government and this is where serious protestors should focus their efforts. The feds at the federal building do not give a crap about people holding signs. We need to grow up as activists and start taking actions that are effective. I have given you the information and a place to start from so it is up to you all now what happens from here. If you really want to help the Palestinians start going after their real enemies by boycotting their companies and putting them out of business! Can you give up Starbucks coffee and Westfield shopping centers? Can you protest there instead of at the federal building? Can you? Do you REALLY want to help? Then prove it and make your protest impossible to ignore.

        1. RuffAdam, I apologize for my comment to you, as I have great respect for you, as evidenced by my previous comments to you. However, I mostly apologize for using the word “rant.” You have obviously thought these things out rationally, and that is to be commended. That being said, shorter versions may very well be to your advantage, as most people really won’t carefully read long comments. But, for those who have questions, it gives you the opportunity to expand at that time. Just a thought, based upon being criticised myself at times in the past for the same thing. Again, just a thought offered to you along with my apology for having a short attention span that day.

      1. Actually Mr Ruff,

        It is Bob who loses readers’ interest with his short mindless quips from the oink script.
        \\][//

        1. Actually, hybridrogue, it is you who have said absolutely nothing of importance, and resorts to personal attacks in an effort to avoid having to answer the questions being asked. I have since apologized to RuffAdam for calling his comment a rant, and have written to him in some detail applauding his offerings of possible solutions, solutions being something you have yet to offer, although asked on numerous occasions to do so. Your continued personal attacks are really showing who your really are, and it is not pretty.

  8. The following quote has been shown in a previous post on T&S, but is repeated here
    as the situation seems to get worse and worse:
    “…….
    Thus, all warfare is rooted in Darkness and is brought about by the mutual intolerance of the various nations, which in turn can be attributed to the lust for power of the leaders and the rulers. If the human will for evil thus calls forth fighting and destruction and a war begins, the nation that initiates the hostilities must bear the responsibility for the war of aggression as well as for the war of defence forced upon the other nation and its allies, regardless of the forms that the war may take. And so long as the attacked nation limits itself to the defence of its country, of its rights, the aggressor will continue to be in the wrong. But the moment the defender extends the hostilities to the territory of the aggressor in order to attack rather than to defend, both sides must share the responsibility for whatever takes place from the moment the border into enemy territory is crossed. (The same laws apply if the battles are fought at sea or in the air).
    The victory or defeat of the warring parties can in no way be attributed to God. Never does He take part in the hostilities, neither on the side of the aggressor nor on the side of the defender. Only prayers for help to restore peace will be heard by God, but His many and persistent attempts to speak to the leaders as their “conscience” are in most cases rejected.
    The victorious party defeats its adversary by virtue of numerical or strategic superiority or the like, or because of the people’s common hatred of the enemy and the people’s common will to win; but victory is never gained with the help of God.

    Any person – civilian or military – who praises, defends and glorifies war in writing or in speech, instead of evoking aversion to this deed of Darkness and enlightening his fellow human beings on the degradation and brutishness of war, is himself placing a heavy burden of responsibility on his shoulders and must, having ended his earthly life, render a detailed account to God of the motivations for his actions.
    Even though human beings wage war among themselves, and even though God does not hear their prayers for victory, He never loses sight of them, but seeks either directly or through the disincarnated Youngest to awaken remorse among the leaders, just as He tries in many ways to instil in them an awareness of the injustice and the abuse of power of which they are guilty, so as to bring about a pact of peace before one of the parties succumbs to the superior force; but in the vast majority of cases also these attempts are rejected by human beings.
    …….”

    Cheers

  9. Here is a further comment to the above qouted:

    “…….
    Therefore, while they are yet on Earth all should seek to repent of their errors, of their sinful and criminal thoughts and acts, and in remorse ask forgiveness of God as well as of their fellow beings before their earthly lives close. Much grief and suffering will thereby be prevented. The guidance of the conscience should be heeded closely in all aspects of life, for the more the conscience is disregarded, the more difficult it becomes to follow its advice, its admonitions and its warnings. By yielding to their own desires, their own base inclinations, human beings increase the number of their incarnations.

    There is one provision under the Law of Retribution none can avoid except the youngest of human spirits, not yet able to respond to their conscience. Applying to the spiritual ego of humans and the Youngest and Eldest alike, this provision requires that all who commit acts of murder or in some other way cause loss of life of fellow beings, must, in a subsequent incarnation, save from sudden death the same number of lives taken. (See above post).

    However, this provision can be applied in different ways. Those judged and penalized under earthly law have nothing more for which to atone. But since God’s law requires that those who kill must in later incarnations save lives, anyone already punished under earthly law will comply with this provision through an act of love, giving them the protection of God so that they emerge unharmed from the perilous task. Not so for those who have evaded earthly justice. They are protected neither by the guardian spirit nor by God during attempts to save other lives. They never escape some form of harm, such as death, maiming, prolonged illness, burns, or the like. In other words, they must atone for past crimes with their own lives or with bodily suffering. Thus God’s Law of Retribution can in certain cases require a life for a life; however, the earthly courts of law have not a similar right. (See speech of Christ, page 125: 3.)

    Those who as earthly rulers, military commanders, or leaders of the people are indirectly responsible for the loss of great numbers of lives during wars and uprisings or through death penalties, can expiate their guilt in subsequent incarnations by saving a large number of people from impending catastrophe, for example through action to avert man-made or natural disasters, as inventors making safe otherwise dangerous occupations, or as scientists who find ways to prevent or control the diseases that are such a scourge to mankind in so many ways. God Himself ensures through this provision the correct balance between the human lives lost and those lives that in compensation are to be saved from premature or painful death.
    The last two means of atonement apply only to the Youngest and partly to the Eldest, since human spirits clearly possess not sufficient spiritual powers to act as inventors or scientists in life on Earth.
    …….”

    Cheers

    1. There are many types of torture. Some are physical, like waterboarding, or electric shocks to the gonads…then there are the psychological types of torture, such as SERMONS of blithering lunacy meant to turn the mind numb.

      Beers

      \\][//

      1. So far, Hybrid, the only “lunacy” shown here is from you, and the psychological torture of reading YOUR lunacy is real. Do you ever have anything positive to add? No? I didn’t think so.

        1. Mr Sims,

          Your opinions have been duly noted. And frankly they are built on ignorance of both history and the reality of current events. I can’t insult you anymore than your own words do.

          You don’t want to talk about history because history shows that Israel was founded on terrorism and has been maintained by terrorism for it’s entire existence. So you want to hand wave all of that and pretend that the present exists in a vacuum, that history starts at this moment and the past did not build this moment for what it is.

          So in confronting someone as ignorant as you, and pointing out that you are indeed ignorant and willfully so, you charge “ad hominem” when it is simply a true characterization of what you are.

          It is futile to deal with someone who is willfully ignorant, there is no future in it because it is their MO, and they resist learning anything that doesn’t fit their indoctrination.

          Essentially you are a waste of everybody’s time, a perpetual complainer.
          \\][//

  10. Everything will of course turn out alright in the end:

    “…….
    Persons who despise or hate other nations or other races will in the next succeeding incarnations invariably be born among them, so that they may learn to love those whom they previously hated.
    …….”

    Cheers

  11. A very insightful article. More people need to look at facts and not rely on media spoon feeding them disinformation.

    1. Agreed, but too bad this article goes beyond facts, even leaving certain facts out that don’t support the writer’s agenda, otherwise known as biased journalism, something I did not expect to see here at T & S.

  12. Israel’s openly brash and blatantly genocidal maniacs with no shame:
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    “Israel must attack Gaza even more mercilessly, expel the population and resettle the territory with Jews, the deputy speaker of Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, has said.

    Moshe Feiglin, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, makes the call in an article for the Israeli news website Arutz Sheva.

    Feiglin demands that Israel launch attacks “throughout Gaza with the IDF’s [Israeli army’s] maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal.”

    Force Gaza population out

    “After the IDF completes the ‘softening’ of the targets with its firepower, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations,” Feiglin writes in one of several calls for outright war crimes.”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/expel-palestinians-populate-gaza-with-jews-says-knesset-deputy-speaker/5393662

    \\][//

    1. Hybrid, we can always find some radical in any country, any religion, to quote hate from, but that does NOT mean they speak for everyone otherwise within their group. Here in America we as cursed with the KKK, for example, and then there are the other white supremacist groups, none of which speak for the average American.

  13. To grasp who the Palestinian people are, one must know something of the Romans of the Biblical period. The most important aspect of this knowledge is that the Romans did not banish their enemies, they crucified them. Understanding this leads to the conclusion that when the Romans had had enough of the rebellions by the Israelite tribes of the so called “Lavant”, they set about destroying the temples and capturing and crucifying as many of the leadership as was possible. This included the Rabbinate of the temples, who naturally fled or were captured and killed.

    But the people as a whole were not ‘dispersed’, they were attached to the land, and thus remaining had to assume allegiance to Caesar.

    As time marched on and the Roman Empire fell, other political forces applied to the area known as Palestine. At one point in time the peoples there were conquered by Islam, and it was politically necessary to convert to go along to get along; which is a constant human attribute.

    According to such logic the Palestinian peoples are for the most part descendants of the ancient Judeans. Whereas the modern Israelis are for the most part Ashkenazim with a heritage from the Caucuses, who converted to Judaism in the 11th century, and spread throughout Eastern Europe for the most part.

    This short outline leads to the major conundrum of modern so-called “Israel”, in that the people who call themselves “Jews”, have no valid heritage to claim the land of Palestine.

    For some insight into this, I refer the reader to, Shlomo Sand and his book The Invention of the Jewish People.
    \\][//

    1. Hybrid, once again you go into ancient history, which has no real meaning to us today, unless one is trying to make an issue of it, which won’t actually change a thing. This is 2014 and what is, is, and what ain’t, ain’t, meaning that the State of Israel exists, right or wrong, and it is NOT going away. That should be the starting point, not ancient history. The question is, what to do now, not what should, or should not, have happened at another time.

  14. Craig,
    I don’t think any of your usual readers will disagree with you on anything you said this time. The tragedy too many who try to equivocate miss is that Israel’s reprisals are completely unnecessary, the attacks on them being 100% prompted by their steadfast refusal to treat others with common respect, fairness, and the kindness with which they cry out loudly to be treated by others. Why can’t the world see this?

    1. James, I have Jewish friends who are angry with my stand on Palestine. The way they spin this always leaves the Palestinians as the terrorists and the Israelis as the victims of aggression. It’s upside down.

      1. Craig,

        Huh, I have Christian friends and family who are just as angry with me for my stand on Palestine. The western PR matrix has woven a totally false paradigm, that predates 9/11, and includes 9/11 as a ‘booster shot’ of dumbfuckery as twisted as a double shot of amphetamines with sedatives.
        A strategy of tension blended with apathy.

        It is said that ‘knowledge is power’, but truer still is that REASON is power.
        “Knowing” is not enough if one is not reasonable with the knowledge one gains.
        \\][//

    2. James, you ask why the world can’t see something you believe that they should. Since you say that the reprisals are unnecessary, please provide an answer to the question I have been asking, without an answer, which is: “What should Israel do when assailed by 3500 rockets?”

      And, what “kindness” are you referring to that Hamas is crying out for as they are only crying out for the complete destruction of Israel and death to all Jews, or did you miss that somehow?

  15. Craig,
    According to leading Israeli historian Zeev Sternhell, the Mossad created Hamas in order to produce precisely that sort of all-but-unanimous support for otherwise untenable actions by the Israeli people and their lackeys abroad. Share that nugget with your Jewish friends.

    1. Thank you for bringing this up Mr Hufferd,
      ……..
      Thanks to the Mossad, Israel’s “Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks”, the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat’s Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation

      Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, “Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)”.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

      \\][//

    2. James, where in the world is your confirmation of the otherwise wild conjecture you came up with about the creation of Hamas? Not everything you read or hear is based in truth.

  16. “The award-winning Israeli historian and scholar on Fascism, Zeev Sternhell, has said that calling for the Palestinians to recognise Israel as a Jewish state is like asking them to recognise their own cultural and historical defeat.

    In an interview published on Sunday with the Italian newspaper l’Unità, Sternhell argued that Israel practices “ethnic discrimination” on a daily basis and that Apartheid already exists in the country. He called on the international community to hold Israel to account and to demand that it dismantle most of the settlements, “or be an outcast”.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/11284-israeli

    \\][//

    1. Hybrid, he is also quoted as saying: “I am not only a Zionist, I am a super-Zionist. For me, Zionism was and remains the right of the Jews to control their fate and their future.”

  17. Boycott is good street level stuff. Lousy coffee anyway. And every which way individuals step up to counter this neoconazionist fascism is good. Divestment. “Successes by the international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement included the Dutch pension giant PGGM divesting from all five of Israel’s main commercial banks. ”

    But there is the 37 thousand million dollar a MONTH military Industry strategizing on the sofa’s at Langley, in the Pentagon OSP and White House watching the big screens allowing Netenyahu every stretch, abetting the outrage with some 300 as ‘death-cover’ of their own miserable agenda. MH17. And earlier, as we know ; 911. The big one.

    There is a ground war on in Ukraine right now. Tanks are fighting on the Russian border in 2014.
    http://slavyangrad.org/

    Pathology that can work at the depth of ‘creating Hamas’ in order to attack it, creating 911 in order to facilitate it, most certainly has in mind the ‘greater’ aim. Cleaning out the ghetto it created is well understood an effective method of ethnic cleansing. Annexation of 44% of GAZA has already been mooted. Whether or not it occurs this time around or the next, IDF do not appear to be planning leaving ground gained during any ‘cease fire’ the idiot Kerry pretends.
    Mail&Guardian http://mg.co.za/article/2014-07-25-curious-case-of-israels-invasion-of-gaza
    : “Predictably, traders and investors were rubbing their hands with glee on July 13 as bombs rained down on the people of Gaza, according to Bloomberg, “Israeli stocks jumped the most since December after energy companies raised estimates for reserves at the Leviathan gas field by 15%.” Delek Group, which owns stakes in the Leviathan field via its Delek Drilling LP and Avner Oil Exploration LLP units, advanced 1.7%.”
    “Tel Aviv, however, had no intention on sharing the revenues with Palestine. An Israeli team of negotiators was set up by the Israeli Cabinet to thrash out a deal with the BG Group, bypassing both the Hamas government and the Palestinian Authority: “Israeli defence authorities want the Palestinians to be paid in goods and services and insist that no money go to the Hamas-controlled Government.” (Ibid, emphasis added). http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-and-natural-gas-the-israeli-invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680
    Mossad ” Tamir Pando’s eerily predictive scenario” on 5th June leading to the kidnap murder of the 3 Israeli boys and behaviour of KERRY and OBAMA toward Putin regarding Ghouta and GLADIO snipers in the Maidan and MH17, all point to the greater aim. I know we know this. But I want to say it anyway.
    This is serious escalation. Stopping it will be an act of outrageous good fortune.

    1. “This is serious escalation.”~Fremo

      Yes, we are definitely looking at a larger global scenario here as the deeper agenda. It is obviously the agenda of reaching for fruition in NWO hegemony.

      Both the US and Israel are but garrisons in this larger picture. So we lean back to again pick up the Antony Sutton and Carroll Quigley lessons of the reestablishment of the ‘British Empire’ game, re-branded for the 21st century as PNAC’s “American Century” and all the PR blablabla attendant to that.

      Where is the real agenda exposed? Again it is in the template given in the Protocols. And here it is understood that Zion is NOT “Jewish” – it is the ancient regime of “Might is Right”, having no religious rhyme or meter whatsoever. It is the “Ends Justify Means” prattle of Psychopaths Inc™.

      \\][//

  18. There’s only one ‘thing’ which is able to conquer evil and hatred – and that’s Enlightenment.
    As a start, we could all help by insisting that the “Golden Rule” be brought back into society
    as a firm foundation for future relationships between nations:

    GAUTAMA BUDDHA.
    Hate is not brought to conclusion by hate. Hate is brought to conclusion by Love.
    This is an eternal law.

    KUNG-TZE.
    Does a precept exist, that one should follow the whole life through? Compassion’s
    precept is surely this:
    Do not do to others, what you do not wish they should do to you. All who are
    surrounded by the four oceans are brothers; how then can a good human being
    come to grief, for not having a brother?

    LAO-TZE.
    By fortunate change, a man could become ruler of the world for a while; but by
    Love he can rule forever.

    ZOROASTER.
    To do good toward others is not a duty. It is a joy, for it increases one’s own health
    and happiness.

    ZOROASTRIANISM.
    Only the human being is good, that do not do to others what is not good for himself.

    JAINISM.
    In one’s daily life a human being ought to treat all creations as he or she would like
    to be treated. In happiness and suffering, in joy and sorrow, we ought to consider
    all beings, as we consider our own self, and ought therefore to refrain from inflicting
    pain to others, as would appear undesirable to us if it be inflicted upon ourselves.

    HINDUISM.
    The essence of our duty is this: Not to do against others, which, if it be done against
    ourselves, would cause us pain.
    Cattle are of different colours; but all milk is alike.
    Systems of creed are different; but the Deity is One.

    Knowledge (Gnosis) ……. Know each other.
    Goodness ……………………. Love thy brother.

    SIKHISM.
    Treat others as you treat yourself, that you may receive your share of heaven.
    Consider all people as equal, as God’s Light is hidden in each and everyone’s heart.

    JUDAISM.
    Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
    Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
    strength.
    Do not hate your brother in your heart. Do not take revenge on your neighbours
    child, but Love thy neighbour as thou Love thyself. I am the Lord, and these words
    I offer thee, shalt be in thy heart and thou shalt enjoin them to thy children, speak
    of them when you art in thy house and when thou walketh the road, and when
    thou go to rest and when thou rise.
    Do not do to thy neighbour, what is injurious to thyself. This is the whole Tora and
    the rest is but a comment. Go then and learn it! Compassion is greater than the law,
    and acts of Love is greater than all ceremonies. Have not all of us One Father?

    CHRISTIANITY.
    Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God, the Lord is One. (Mark 12:29).
    And thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, and with all thy soul, and
    with all thy mind, and with all thy strength ; and thou shalt Love thy neighbour as
    thyself.
    Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so
    to them; for this is the law of the prophets. Love your enemies, bless them that
    curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
    you, and persecute you.
    For God maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the
    just and on the unjust.

    ISLAM.
    Do toward all human beings that, which you wish they should do toward you, and
    discard for others what you would discard for yourself. All the created is like God’s
    kin, for it is maintained by him. He or she that God loves the most, is the human
    being who do good toward God’s kin. None is a true faithful, if he does not love for
    his brother, what he loves for himself.
    The best and uppermost of God’s children are those, whom, when looked upon, are
    reminding of God, and the worst of God’s children are those, who spread gossip
    around for the purpose of doing harm and separate friends and seek to find fault
    amongst the good and kind.
    Be friendly toward your neighbour. Draw the veil over him. Avoid doing harm to
    him. Regard him with a pleasant look. If you see him doing evil, then forgive him.
    If you see him doing good toward you, then give a sign of your gratitude.

    TOWARD THE LIGHT.
    Not to a single human being does He ever close His heart, nor to anyone does He
    close the portals of the fatherly home. For to God, the creator and Father
    of the human spirit, it is of no importance to what earthly belief the individual
    human being adheres in word and action, but it is of importance that human
    beings in mind and in heart, in Thought and in action should live according to the
    faith that they profess, and not merely observe its outer forms or cling to its
    man-made dogmas or to that which is dictated by habit or by ritual, none of
    which has any spiritual value whatsoever for eternal life.
    Only that which calls upon, evokes and maintains the best, the noblest and the
    finest in human Thought and feeling, only that has lasting and inextinguishable
    value to the individual.

    Not only in the area of religious faith should people learn to yield to each other
    and to be tolerant of one another’s views and opinions; but also in the areas of
    social and political life should they try to seek common ground between one
    another, seek in fellowship to cast off the yoke of Darkness, so that their
    common journey toward the distant goal may be accomplished under more
    favourable conditions than hitherto.

    How can human beings themselves then help toward the achievement of this
    task?
    Firstly by never acting against better judgement, by always heeding the inner
    prompting of their conscience and by teaching the coming generations to work
    for truth, justice and peace on Earth.

    AMERICA’S IMMORTAL WORDS.
    Let us, without feeling hate to anyone and showing compassion toward all,
    holding firm to what is right; to such extend as God let us see it, endeavour to
    accomplish the work we are about doing: To dress the country’s wound, and to
    do everything possible that will lead to a just and lasting peace between
    ourselves mutually and with all nations.

    LORD BADEN-POWELL.
    Happiness is attainable to all, for in the last instance it consist in merely being
    content with what one has, and to do what one can for other human beings.

    EDWIN MARKHAM.
    There is a fate which make us brothers and sisters; no one, no body wander his
    Road alone. Everything we send into others lives, return back into our own.

    ROBERT INGERSOLL.
    My creed is this: Happiness is the only good. The place upon where we shall be
    happy is here, and the moment upon which we shall be happy is now. The road
    to happiness consist in making others happy.

    HORAGE MANN.
    If we do not do something for others, we destroy ourselves.

    VOLTAIRE.
    To discover the Truth and to do good, is Philosophy’s two most important aims.
    …….

    (Citations from the Holy text of world religions and other sources
    by Salah-ad-Dien, D.D., Ph.D.; and one citation by Tamborine man).

    Cheers

    1. I do wonder at the intent behind the flood.

      Yes indeed, I am hostile to pseudo-metaphysical jibberjabber nonsense… sermons on the mound of bullshit.
      \\][//

    2. Dear Mr. Tamborine Man,

      I enjoyed your medley of parallelisms from different religions, eras, and schools of thought. However this work isn’t yours, as indicated by the out of place line breaks.

      So next time, how about linking us to your source?

      Zum Wohl!
      //

      1. Dear SEO,
        many thanks for your comment, and so good to see you got your heart perfectly in the right place!

        The reason i didn’t give a link, is simply because i copied it directly from my own thread over at the P4T forum. It can be found on the last page there!

        Oh, and btw, many thanks again, for giving “the shadow” another ‘bloody nose’ in your other recent post! ;o)

        Cheers mate

        1. Tamborine mam,

          You are such a hypocrite, gloating over your perceived vengeance by proxy, after all your “blessed” woowoo bullshit.
          \\][//

        2. And, as far as referring to me as “the shadow”, I will note that anyone who is paying attention here knows that I am Willy Whitten.
          And by the same token it is you and your hyperventilating “champion” who are the snidely hypocritical covert entities.
          \\][//

        3. With 75 total comments at time of writing, Mr. Rogue’s contribution makes up 41% of the total. Ergo, he has ample bandwidth already stored up in this thread TO IGNORE AND NOT RESPOND to those he despises. No sense stoking the flame wars.

          Mr. Rogue wrote in response to Mr. TM:

          And, as far as referring to me as “the shadow”, I will note that anyone who is paying attention here knows that I am Willy Whitten.

          Mr. Rogue is a fool.

          On multiple levels. But the one highlighted here is his internet presence and the ill-informed standards he flouts. A glorious cheat.

          We shouldn’t take Mr. Rogue’s word at face value. Indeed, my dealings with him have uncovered many statements statements that have unraveled as being dishonest.

          To further prove who he is, Mr. Rogue should publish his physical address, IP address, social security number, driver’s license number, AARP membership number, bank account numbers (with PINs), etc. so some internet fuk can run a background and credit check are truly verify that this particular “back-stop identity” (with middle initial between a “C” and an “E”) is truly a real person.

          From the last Batman movie:

          You wear a mask, not for yourself, but to protect those you love.

          A mother still alive whose mailing address and telephone number are given out for packages? Two female and one male adult offspring?

          I bet that Mr. Rogue doesn’t give a fook about any of them (and most likely vice versa given his overt misogyny), which is why he is so eager to whip out his limp “Willy” and inappropriately badgers others to live online by his nudist standards.

          Too bad it ain’t and has never been prudent to do so on the internet, for reasons parallel to the above twirking.

          And by the same token it is you and your hyperventilating “champion” who are the snidely hypocritical covert entities.

          Hypocritical about what?

          This is the internet, old man. We all should be “covert entities” until need-to-know or trust might dictate otherwise. No sense making it easier for the misguided & vindicative sociopaths and psychopaths. Those with a badge and a warrant can find us quickly enough, and the NSA will have our words collected, organized, and categorized in time for our trials.

          Other than the above points, it should be pointed out that I’m not anonymous on the internet. Those with even middling IT skills can locate me, down to GPS coordinates for a drone strike while I slumber. I’ve never fixed the weak firewall when it was first exploited, because ultimately I do stand behind my words.

          Had Mr. Rogue been more observant when I commissioned the review of Dr. Wood’s book, the accompanying invoice that he tossed unread probably outed my exact identity. I’ve even told others, including Dr. Fetzer.

          I haven’t told Mr. Rogue, because he can’t be trusted with such information. Hell, he doesn’t even value his own personal information and doesn’t appreciate how his actions could impact others close to him. It’s a cheat that he even plays this name-game.

          //

        4. As it is the covert entity SEO’s modus operendi, I expected such a perfidious textual flambe of noxious anal hurlant veiled in saccharine prose, as he/she has just posted.

          Proof that a beancounter ends up with nothing more than a hill of beans.
          \\][//

  19. I OBJECT

    I object to this distraction of what is a rational discussion here, interrupted by a flood of impertinent preaching.!

    Since this topic is now broached, I have this to point out about it:

    It is in fact that whole string of organized religions represented in Tamborine man’s fusillade, who enable the political powers that use “faith” as a weapon of control. This has gone on for century upon century into the distant past beyond known history.
    This is in fact one of the excuses used by the Christian Zionists who support the Jewish Zionists in this insanity in Palestine today.

    One of the root causes of this monstrous misadventure cannot be held out as a cure, but by the most naive and misguided amongst us.
    \\][//

    1. And you, of course have all the answers. Everyone is stupid here, but you, of course. But, with all your gibberish rants, you have yet to offer an answer to how to resolve this issue, and what is it that the Israelis should do when assailed by 3500 rockets? And, no more meaningless gibberish nonsense and attacks upon others for a change.

      1. I see Sims, you have decided to squat here, like the Israeli “settlers”, making this land your land. Taking over the conversation by answering each and every post by anybody here.

        As far as I’m concerned you are the stranger in our house, and have no place to make judgments of those of us who maintain the the regular dialog here.

        I don’t give a flying bat turd what you think of me, and I don’t care for your warmongering attitudes of propping up the terrorist state of Israel.
        \\][//

  20. hybridrogue1,

    For the benefit to the readers of this thread, would you be kind enough to quote in context what exactly it is, specifically (in the messages given in any of my 3 posts), that you so vehemently disagree with?

    Cheers

    1. Tamborine man,

      I said exactly and specifically what my problem with your preaching is, exactly.

      You are a dissembler and distraction unit; I have known this from the very first encounters with you as part of Fetzers coven of PR shit plasterers.
      How many thousands of words of this oinking dickspittle was just spewed (in the 3 posts)?
      It strikes me as off key. I read bad intent in this technique of splitting up the conversation with pure static holy-holy nincompoopia.

      This is NOT a discussion on spirituality and religion. This is a real world crisis that needs to be dealt with rationally in the here and now.
      \\][//

      1. Dear Mr. Rogue,

        I object to your objection and to the manner of your engagement. Why don’t you just ignore instead of engage with your bullying? Were it as bad as you claim, all you’ve done is feed it and provided more opportunity for a response. Ignoring it, on the other hand, could turn it into a one-hit-wonder (which the height of your aptly named “No Soul” never reached) or a hit-and-run.

        Mr. TM had a point that you didn’t address his re-posting of someone else’s collection with anything specific that was wrong or out-of-place with the quotations. Which one in particular do you disagree with?

        Ah, yes… you have a problem with his “preaching?” Remove the beam from thine own eye before trying to tackle the splinter in his, because your frequent pings-of-life-signs or pings-to-crank-new-diversional-discussions plastered from forum to forum when conversations have petered out ain’t nothing more than quotable quotes from others (poorly formatted and sourced) but are habitually grinded into nearly all threads despite their marginal applicability. Tis but the same.

        Keep that in mind as you endeavor to ignore and not respond to those you despise.

        //

      2. Dear reader,
        i have never had any ‘dealings’ with Mr. Fetzer, and never spoken to him. I once agreed with him a couple of years ago in posts on a subject discussed here on T&S, and that’s about it! (Referring to post by hybridrogue from July 31, 2014 at 9.24 am.).
        I’m stating this just to make you aware that from this person ‘hybridrogue’, honesty is not one of the attributes he will be best ‘remembered’ by. In fact quit the contrary.
        F.ex. in a couple of posts above i asked him a specific question. That was unceremoniously ignored. To hide the fact he didn’t have the guts, the gumption nor the honesty to answer it, he instead decided to spew some venom, vomit and vitriol, hoping, it seems like, to hide the fact he’s but a coward!

        Apropos Mr. Fetzer, here’s an article where his name is mentioned as co-author:

        WARNING: Horrid photos not for the fainthearted.
        http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/what-israelis-regard-as-unimaginable-restraint-in-palestine/

        Cheers

        1. My point, already made and reinforced here is that this is not a Sunday School class. I have no disagreement with human compassion whatsoever.

          However I do despise such hypocrites as TM and his attendant bodyguard of puny stature.

          The alignments of opinion in the past threads on this blog are clear enough that such denials from TM as per Fetzer are revealed as spurious simply by revisiting the threads themselves.
          \\][//

          1. So let us get this straight:

            You got no disagreement with anything that was said in any of my first 4 posts, but despite this ‘apparent fact’, you still found it necessary to ‘scream out’ “I OBJECT”.

            ‘OBJECT’ to what? ‘OBJECT’ to the fact the all conflicts can and should be solved solely by diplomatic means? ‘OBJECT’ to the fact that all ‘warfare’ originates from the deepest of Darkness??

            When it comes to ‘hypocrisy’, there’s no doubt in my mind that it is this man ‘hybridrogue1’ that would be the greatest hypocrite par excellence, participating on this blog.

            Cheers

          2. You want to get this straight Tamborine? Then you read what I say and don’t reply to your own flipped out bullshit reinterpretation of what I say.

            The Golden Rule is not some extraordinary wisdom that needs pronouncement from some priesthood. It is common internal wisdom for any who have the empathy of a sane human being. Thus I found Tamborine man’s preachy posting of this common wisdom on the current thread on Truth and Shadows, consisting of thousands of words, and knocking the thread off topic to be pure distraction on his part. I objected to it.

            T&S is not Sunday School.

            This is a secular discussion of the flesh and blood world about a real crisis.
            . . . . . . . . .
            This is the last thing I say about your twattle TM, you have wasted too much of the forums space and time with this crap.
            \\][//

      3. “That needs to be dealt with rationally in the here and now.”

        Surely you jest! You have yet to even attempt to be rational, as you would rather simply attack others. So, tell us, your highness, how should we be dealing with this in the here and now you refer to? So far, you have only shown yourself to be a bully and a coward.

  21. hybridrogue1,

    For the benefit to the readers of this thread, would you be kind enough to quote in context what exactly it is, specifically (in the messages given in any of my 3 posts), that you so vehemently disagree with?

    Cheers

    PS!
    I think we would all like to find out what your True problem is!!

    1. I have confidence that the bulk of the readers of this thread have the reading comprehension skills you lack and already grasp my problem with you Tamborine man.
      \\][//

    2. You are wasting your time with this insane egomaniac, Rouge guy, as he will never be specific about anything except his total contempt for others that don’t share his lunacy and his highly inflated ego, being a legend only in his own mind, of course.

  22. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday he would not accept any ceasefire that stopped Israel completing the destruction of militants’ infiltration tunnels.
    In the ongoing Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip, there have been 1,100 Israeli airstrikes.
    Israel strikes near Gaza market during ceasefire; 15 Palestinians dead, 160 wounded…

    And the beast goes on…
    \\][//

    1. As usual, Mr. Rouge, you say nothing as you rattle on. Do you have a problem with Israel wanting to shut those tunnels down? If so, what, pray tell, is it?

      1. Sims,

        You take a lot for granted. You believe the bullshit you get from the Public Relations Regime, come on here on your high horse making judgments on issues you are utterly ignorant of.

        I have an issue with the inhuman blockade of Gaza, and the continued pounding of the rubble into smaller rubble. And hypocrites such as yourself who claim to have no sympathy for Zionism while defending it with every sentence you spew here.

        \\][//

  23. There’s many sides to this and the Israelis are victims too. It’s about the rich and power hungry greedy people of this world. Christians need to wake up. “However, Israel is different from the US. In Israel, 15-20 families control over 80% of the economy” http://messiahsmandate.org/massive-protests-in-israel-the-real-story/#sthash.PNJn4r3D.NEaL4w8Q.dpbs

    Just because I believe in the Bible doesn’t make it right to take someone’s house away from the Palestinians that have been living side by side with Orthodox Jews peaceably before this century. The masons like Truman and FDR and fundamentalist Christians who tried to force the messiah’s coming are at fault too.

    1. “It’s about the rich and power hungry greedy people of this world.”~Kittii
      , , , ,
      I for one, understand and agree with what your are saying Kittii. If you will review my comment of; hybridrogue1 – JULY 30, 2014 AT 7:29 PM, I think you will see that I acknowledge this perspective you are giving in your commentary and presentation.
      \\][//

      1. How nice, and all so well and good, but what, exactly, are your ideas as how to move forward, and what do you expect Israel to do when bombarded with 3500 rockets, a question you have yet to acknowledge, let alone answer?

        1. And just what the fuck do you expect the Palestinians to do when they have been ripped off for some 98 percent of their land and are now forced to live like refugees in an open air prison surrounded by one of the most advanced and sophisticated military machines on the planet?

          You are so concerned about these ‘rockets’ that have killed less than a dozen Israelis, while the death toll of the Palestinians of Gaza strip have suffered over 2000 deaths, and the displacement of tens of thousands.

          You are a blatant hypocrite Sims, spewing anal hurlant like a true Hasbarah Zionist troll from Mossad.
          \\][//

  24. Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people. [Wiki]

    In the current Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip, there have been 1,100 Israeli airstrikes, and more than a thousand Palestinian deaths. Plus the Gaza water and power supply and other infrastructure has been destroyed.

    It is this maniacal and psychotic disproportion that tells the real story in occupied Palestine.
    \\][//

    1. More propaganda gibberish from you, as expected. What should Israel do when attacked, in your not so humble opinion, just treat it like you would a natural hail storm and just run for cover?

      1. Yes indeed Mr Ruff, that map is illustrative of how much of Palestine has been stolen since the first big rip off in 1947. “Israel” will never stop its rape, murder and pillage of the Mid East on their own. They will have to be stopped by force.
        Where such a force will come from, I have no idea…not as long as Amerika continues to enable such madness.
        \\][//

        1. hybridrogue wrote: “….They will have to be stopped by force. Where such force will come from, I have no idea…”.

          The following, quoted from a previous post of mine above, could very well be what ‘hybridrogue’ so violently ‘OBJECT’ED to:

          “Any person – civilian or military – who praises, defends and glorifies war in writing or in speech, instead of evoking aversion to this deed of Darkness and enlightening his fellow human beings on the degradation and brutishness of war, is himself placing a heavy burden of responsibility on his shoulders and must, having ended his earthly life, render a detailed account to God of the motivations for his actions.”

          Dear reader, please be mindful of one of Craig Mckee’s banners above that reads:

          “The stages of truth
          All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. – Arthur Schoepenhauer”.

          So far hybridrogue has managed to perform the first two stages with a ridiculous air of aplomb. Now it remains to be seen if he will ever be able to accomplish the third stage, or remain the ‘shadow’ in the name of this blog!!

          Cheers

          1. You are such a naive twit Tamborine. There are two types of violence, aggression and self defense. If you cannot distinguish between the two it is from your idiotic Utopian daydreaming.

            I have had enough of your yapping at my heels like a rabid chihuahua. So consider this; if you keep it up, I will consider it an aggression and reply in kind. If you back off, we can call and end to the flame war. This is the ‘diplomatic solution’ you pretend to favor. If you go ahead with confronting me with your bullshit, it will be obvious to the forum readership who wants to fight. It’s up to you bucko.
            \\][//

            1. Shall quote again another excerpt from one of my posts above, which hybridrogue so violently OBJECTED to:

              “Thus, all warfare is rooted in Darkness and is brought about by the mutual intolerance of the various nations, which in turn can be attributed to the lust for power of the leaders and the rulers. If the human will for evil thus calls forth fighting and destruction and a war begins, the nation that initiates the hostilities must bear the responsibility for the war of aggression as well as for the war of defence forced upon the other nation and its allies, regardless of the forms that the war may take. And so long as the attacked nation limits itself to the defence of its country, of its rights, the aggressor will continue to be in the wrong. But the moment the defender extends the hostilities to the territory of the aggressor in order to attack rather than to defend, both sides must share the responsibility for whatever takes place from the moment the border into enemy territory is crossed. (The same laws apply if the battles are fought at sea or in the air).”

              Judging from his post above (August 1, 2014 at 10:56pm.), it looks as if the man never bothered to actually read what he, far too quickly, suddenly decided so bitterly to ‘OBJECT’ to!

              What a man?
              Cheers

            2. Alright then, I will repeat this again so you know why I am responding to your continued harangue, when I offered and end to the flame war you obviously wish to continue:

              ‘If you go ahead with confronting me with your bullshit, it will be obvious to the forum readership who wants to fight. It’s up to you bucko.’
              … …
              So now Tamborine man is pretending to speak for ‘God’ on T&S. He assumes that one passage he wrote “could very well be” what I “violently objected to”… Lol
              “Violently”?
              A presumption plus a subjective characterization. Critical thinking has never been this covert entity’s strong suit. He is obviously one of the duller tools in the shed.

              I have given my conditions for peace on T&S. His rejection can only mean that he doesn’t wish peace, but only wishes to provoke a continued flame war. If that is his intent, then he is obviously a lying hypocrite; feinting as a ‘peacemaker’ and ‘victim’, while making an attack. Very much like the evil state of Israel that is supposed to be the topic of the thread.

              I objected to this numskull’s preaching bullshit – now he wants to escalate to the point of speaking for ‘God’, making ‘Holy Judgments’ against my soul….Lol

              Even quoting Schoepenhauer, as if he holds the ‘revealed truth’ in his hands…what utter pathetic hubris.

              Now, take some time and think this through TM. Do you want to continue with your aggression, or will you let this lay? You are only being the hypocrite to keep on when I have given you the chance to stop, and will certainly let it be if you do.
              But if you don’t, I will indeed lay into you. Is that what you want, are you provoking me? If you say one more word about this shit you surely are.
              \\][//

              1. Okay, let’s see if we can end this here on a good note, hybridrogue!
                You wrote:

                “You are such a naive twit Tamborine. There are two types of violence, aggression and self defense. If you cannot distinguish between the two it is from your idiotic Utopian daydreaming.”

                It should be rather obvious, judging from my reply to you, that i have a perfectly clear understanding of the difference between ‘aggression’ and ‘self-defense’.

                Therefore, if you would be man enough to concede that the slur about me, in the above comment of yours, was totally wrong and uncalled for, then you shall hear nothing more from me on this matter!

                Cheers

      1. “And your solution is what?”~Sims

        My solution here is to identify an obvious Hasbara agent copy and pasting from a standard script book provided by the PR agents from Mossad.

        You fit that profile perfectly Sims.

        In just one day: August 21, 2014 you have jumped down this thread with a blatantly contrived comment in reply to every post I have made.
        You deny the terrorist past of Israel, claim that history has no place in the debate because history proves that terrorist beginning of the Israeli state, and flood this forum with this anti-historical bullshit slurring me with personal insults, pretending as if your are some sort of judge from on high.

        You have proven yourself an agent of brutal Zionism with every entry you make here. You have rather singled me out for special treatment because I obviously do know the history of your vile movement of the credo of ‘Might Makes Right’. You lobby this forum just like your vile and venomous counterparts, ‘the Israel Lobby’ who have bought or blackmailed all the branches of the US government.

        In short Mr Sims, you are a blatant propagandist promoting an agenda, not simply an individual seeking the truth. You have zero interest in the truth, because you are only here to sell lies.
        \\][//

  25. Foreign Office
    November 2nd, 1917

    Dear Lord Rothschild,

    I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

    “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours sincerely,
    Arthur James Balfour
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    \\][//

    1. And you do love history, don’t you? Now, what has any of that got to do with the situation that exists before us today? Quit wondering off in your time machine, as the future is now.

      1. History created the present moment Sims. The denial of history is the denial of the context of the present.

        You are a propaganda agent, admit it.
        \\][//

  26. A photo of one of the Hamas rockets lying on the ground where it landed in Israel is being widely circulated now. It looks like a child’s toy rocket, something you might be able to catch in a bushel basket. Is this the object of such fear and international sympathy for poor little Israel, justifying genocide? Public opinion has really gone berserk!

    1. And what would you have to say if these rockets were landing in your yard, or even your house? Simple minded remarks like yours don’t say much about your intelligence level.

  27. With the overwhelming evidence that the modern Jewish population is of Khazar origin, Koestler remarks that this would clearly indicate that “their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Uigur and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” This conclusion would then logically render the epithet “anti-Semitism” “void of meaning,” Koestler says.
    http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/library/khazars.html

    \\][//

      1. My point is obvious Hufferd, which is that the Ashkenazim “Jews” don’t have a drop of Middle Eastern blood in their veins. That their claim on Palestine is bogus because their ancestors never set foot in Palestine.
        \\][//

    1. You do love your own gibberish, don’t you? Is it just not possible for you to have an intelligent comment about what we might do to end this madness? No? I didn’t think so.

      1. “No? I didn’t think so.”~Sims

        It is obvious what you think is not what matters here. What your agenda is here is to post bullshit PR talking points that are prepared in advance by your Hasbara leadership.

        You have, and continue to overplay your hand agent Sims.
        \\][//

  28. It is very interesting that the two events so filling the news the past weeks are the downing of MH-17 near Kiev, and the Israeli attack on Gaza. Especially when one notes that Kiev was on the western border of Khazaria, and the Ashkenazim “Jews” originating from the Khazars have stolen Palestine. History seems coming full circle with this ancient dilemma.
    \\][//

    1. Thanks for the link Toys,

      As the most prolific murderer and plunderer in the history of this planet, I don’t have any illusions that Amerika will do anything other than facilitate the decimation of the Palestinian people by the terror state called “Israel”.
      This is tragic but true.
      \\][//

  29. Breaking the Set… featuring Morton Klein who has a squeaky-toy demon trying to escape through his nose when he speaks: A perfect caricature of a human to represent Hell on Earth–Israel/Mordor.
    \\][//

    1. James,

      I was/am a martial artist, Tai Chi Ch’uan is my art. It is entirely a defensive art-form. It has shaped my life attitudes since I began practice at around 11 or 12 years old.
      I have never started a physical fight. I have finished several.
      I have not attempted to provoke Tamborine – if that is why you inquire. I objected to his flooding the thread with holy-roller bullshit of a jejune level. I have explained this in detail already.

      If you are asking in relation to the Palestinian issue, I think it is the Israelis under the sponsorship of Amerika that is the clear aggressor. I think the Palestinians have every just right to attempt to defend themselves as a people.
      \\][//

      1. Rogue egoist, you have not explained anything in detail throughout your on going, say nothing, rants. As to your tough guy remark, wow, we had all best shut up before you come kill us. And your insane final comment about the firing of 3500 rockets as being a defensive move is ludicrous. I guess, as those rockets are hitting all over Israel, that Israel has no right to do something to stop it. No, of course not. What a fool you really are with no answers, only personal attacks.

    2. James, good for you in calling this Rogue misfit down. He is the most overbearing, self-importance filled egomaniac on this thread, never once offering anything of value, mostly personal attacks on all those who disagree with his history lessons and other conjecture.

  30. Willy, this is, I believe, intended as an open forum, properly attracting not a uniformity of background, orientation, or opininion, but anyone interested in discussing You have your rough-and-tumble martial background and very decided opinions which you are free and welcome to lay out civilly and argue. I’ve come to observe that most here usually agree with you, because you tend to cull out those, not necessarily cut from the same mould, some with perspectives you, or I for that matter, may find distasteful, but just as convinced as we of what they believe. Now, if you or I, or say, Craig takes it upon himself to be the policeman or vettor of the forum and its types of participants and their contributions we will tolerate, those not accustomed to intollerance of disagreement or rankling personal styles or backgrounds will leave (as I believe many already have). And all you’ll have to remonstrate with here will be yes men. So, my (unwelcome) advice is: say your piece, let others say theirs, be persuasive and neither agressive nor defensive, and may the best arguments, not the most frightful vocabulary, prove persuasive and win out.

    1. James, just let me say to all of that, that I have never pretended to be the spokesman for this blog. I have made it as clear as I possibly can that I speak for myself and no one else.

      So let’s be clear on this; we are not strangers among ourselves here. Many of us have been through disagreements and tangled on various issues. We have a sense for who it is we speak to in large degree, but for the newcomers that may pop up from time to time.

      We do not start with a ‘clean slate’ on each new thread, we have our own, and know each other’s MO’s.
      Again we reach the point of making the proper distinction between assertiveness and aggression. It is those who cannot make such distinctions who react to assertiveness, to challenges to their positions, as if they are being attacked.
      It is not an ‘attack’ to strongly disagree with another’s assertions. It is only the thin skinned and those who lack confidence that are “insulted” and react ‘violently’ to a strong reasonable argument.

      I am good with words, I can explain myself quite well, so when I am confronted by the obtuse, who clearly are not reading what I say, but are reading into it what the imagine I am saying, I will indeed become more assertive. Only when it comes to the point that I am actually being verbally attacked that I will throw down the gauntlet. And I usually give several warnings before doing so.

      I am interested in rational discussion here, there are some good minds here and we even get interesting commentary from newcomers. I deplore getting into personal tiffs unnecessarily, I prefer for the discussions to move smoothly. But I will object when I see what are distractions that lead into the weeds of wankery and naive dickspittle.

      Others may deplore my upfront frank approach. That’s life… different strokes and all that. But I do find it peculiar that there are those who would purposely provoke me, knowing the hard knocks they are sure to receive by doing such, as you know, I rarely disappoint when such arises.

      So now, what say – enough of this personal chit chat, and lets get back to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Aye?
      \\][//

      1. “Let’s get back to the ….conflict?” Surely you jest, again, and as usual. You have yet to even comment about the conflict as to how it pertains to today, not years ago in your history lessons you so love to espouse. You offer no solutions whatsoever. So, yes, it is long past time for YOU to get back on the subject at hand.

        1. So how many posts is this you have made today agent Sims?

          You have no place in putting the “subject” to your own context, by pretending that history does not sequentially create the future throughout time.
          \\][//

  31. Others may (!) find your diatribes more offensive than you do yourself at times. None of us see ourselves altogether objectively. And you do make a point of never using a simple word when a longer one will do. Be all that as it may, the standard you just laid out for yourself is not a bad one. Let’s see how long you can abide by it. Yo?

    1. My last wife’s coworkers used to tell me that I must have the patience of a saint…
      I do have a lot of patience. But my limits are clearly drawn. There is one stepping over them at this very moment… I am not sure what his game is or why. He has been warned several times now.
      \\][//

      1. Your last wife’s coworkers…Oh, my, how you do wander about, always finding another excuse to let us all know how intelligent you are, how tough you are and now, how patient you are. Your head just keeps on swelling with your own love of words, your words, of course, not of others. As to your last wife, did she divorce your sorry ass, or did you murder her; you didn’t say. And, who is it that is it that you say is stepping over your (self-imposed) limits?

  32. HR,

    I generally agree with you virtually all of the time. I sometimes think: “WELL SAID!!!!” Other times I laugh at your humorous wordsmithery. But I would be offended if I were told: “You are such a naive twit.” If I were running a blog I would make a rules page with examples, so there’d be no ambiguity as to what I considered in and out of bounds. Out of bounds: “You are such a naive twit.” In play: “You are being extremely naive, sir.” The name calling is unnecessary. My two cents. When you don’t engage in that against people, and when you’re offering spot-on commentary, your posts are dynamite; the name-calling tarnishes. Save name-calling for the obvious agents like Wright. 😉

    1. Thank you Mr Syed, I appreciate your input and will consider it well.

      There is a time for biting insult, we all have various standards. I am of a mind to dismiss the whole issue at this point.

      Good night to all.
      \\][//

        1. Dear Mr Syed,

          Upon further reflection I have come to appreciate your advice and input even more than I originally did.

          Under the rules of “Unintended Consequences” is seems that my engagement turned out to make the subject of my angst the ‘Center of Attention’ for the second part of this thread. Although the original encyclopedic verbosity is the main issue I objected to…

          These things often involve the meme of ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’. In a way that means that it is hard to spoil something that has already been spoiled.

          Dilemmas plague all of us every day in this brave new world.
          If we live to learn, we live and learn.
          \\][//

  33. Dear Mr Syed,

    As I said last night, ‘There is a time for biting insult.’

    So let me be frank here, I MEANT the comment to TM as an insult, it was no mistake, nor laps of ‘civility’. He has been attempting to cast me as “the Shadow of Darkness” and frame me as evil for quite awhile, not just beginning with the the things he has said in this thread.

    Any with a historical memory should recall all of the times the two of us have butted heads. So I will not recount or revisit these moments at this time. Just this recent one:

    “Oh, and btw, many thanks again, for giving “the shadow” another ‘bloody nose’ in your other recent post! ;o)”~Tamborine man
    . . . . . . . . .
    So this will end here with this statement.

    I have given the terms of disengagement in this current dispute. I have nothing more to offer but those terms. I feel that the insult given, using the word “twit” was deserved by the party thus characterized. If that party wishes to take back all of the previous characterizations used to frame myself as some sort of evil force on this blog, I would be happy to meet on such mutual ground.
    Until such a time, I suggest that enough time and energy has been wasted on this affair. Let us then proceed with the topic of the thread.
    \\][//

  34. –“We tortured some folks after 9/11″~Barack Obama, 8/1/2014
    . . . . . . . . . .
    No shit Sherlock…
    13 years it took to acknowledge facts that have been common knowledge all that time. Disgusting.
    \\][//

    1. Now, let’s see, you previously stated: “Let us then proceed with the topic of the thread.” And then you immediately go into a statement from Obuma that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. And you wonder why I call you an egoist, so caught up in your own words that just happen to pop right into your head, not remembering what you had just stated, and most certainly, not caring.

    1. Hufferd,

      I was simply pointing out that it took the head of state in Amerika 13 years to acknowledge the obvious.

      Now do you suppose that there will be actual consequences for the torturers? Will Obama order the Justice Department to arrest the Bush administration? We are talking about Obama here, who has taken upon himself the authority to murder anyone in the world via drone strikes. Yes, Obama who acts as dictator over a panoptic maximum security police state.

      This latest speech is PR mollification, nothing more. Obama and his regime are no less psychotic maniacs than any other Amerikan regime.
      \\][//

  35. Repercussions can be prophesied, if you’re into that sort of thing, but are yet to be seen. I suppose he could, as an alternative, have said instead, “THEY did it”, since he wasn’t in the government yet at that time. But, aren’t you pulling us a bit off-topic a bit here?

    1. “But, aren’t you pulling us a bit off-topic a bit here?”~Hufferd

      And haven’t you joined in with me?

      But:
      It is not far off, as it is the Amerikan weapons and booster club fomenting the actions of Israel at this time as always. The two garrison states are joined at the hip on this monstrous endeavor.

      Obama was a Senator, he just wasn’t a member of the executive branch “at that time”.
      \\][//

  36. I think some sympathy is in order here for Israel as they have such a burden of regret to endure , as in ‘we regret the loss of life of civilians’. With about 1500 Palestinian civilians killed and maybe four or five times that number injured , probably many of them seriously, they have a far more onerous burden of regret to carry on their shoulders than Hamas, who have only killed a handful of Israelis (not to minimize anyone’s death). I mean how many Palestinians do they have to kill before people start to appreciate just how hard it is on the Israelis?

    1. Hahaha…I do appreciate your satire here on this matter A Wright.

      It was some famous Nazi general who said about the genocide of the Jews during WWII, “It’s a hard job, but we’ve got to do it.”

      I can just imagine the alligator tears running down the cheeks of Bibi the Bomber now…
      \\][//

        1. Just another post from the hasbara agent who has set down here to occupy and flood this thread with pro-Israeli propaganda.
          Substantiating common knowledge is needless and redundant.
          \\][//

    1. See to your spell checker Hufferd, or have some more coffee and wake up.

      I see you do not grasp the political games of DC even yet. It is all posing and theater. Obama was even then being groomed as a ‘change agent’ for his phony “Hope and Change” bullshit.

      Do you think I cannot see the attitude you are brewing in your subtext Mr Hufferd?
      “Deflect always?” … Lol
      \\][//

      1. And, here you are once again, making personal attacks on others you deem less worthy than yourself. You must spend hours each day in front of a mirror admiring yourself and telling yourself how you were able to assault others with your endless stream of meaningless words.

    1. “Who brought up “hope and change”?”~Hufferd

      Obama did.

      The ground isn’t shifting Hufferd, you are dizzy.
      \\][//

    2. James, have you not noticed that one of his favorite tricks is his constant shifting of ground, letting all of us know just how incredibly more intelligent he is than we underlings are, reminding those who missed an occasional letter on the keyboard to drink more coffee and use their spell checker more often. What an asshole this guy is.

  37. Secretly born in Nairobi in 1911, accompanied grandparents and was instrumental at the Jeckyl Island conflab, created Israel secretly as an undercover agent for Wilson, brazenly announced 29 years later by Bernard Baruch, his actual father, in Moscow in 1947. I know the drill…

    1. Gaza Update: Fate Of Israeli Soldier Unknown;
      Death Toll Surpasses 2009 Level
      ~NPR News · 4 hours ago

      A day after they were to begin a cease-fire, Israel and Hamas are still firing at one another, in a conflict that has killed at least 1,650 Gazans, 63 Israeli soldiers.
      . . . . . . .
      “This is the end, my only friend, the end…”~Jim Morrison
      \\][//

  38. The U.S. v. Indian genocide has never slowed much. Recently, Russell Means was terminated with the usual CIA cancer pinprick. Different theatres, same atrocities. Their demons snuffed.

  39. Yes, let’s please stay off the personal attacks. They are tiresome to read and a general waste of time. So no more “twits” and no more “shadow” insinuations. Thank you.

  40. Yes, i agree with you about the “personal attacks” to be a completely waste of time. That’s why you should have stopped them as soon as they first appeared – but alas!

    Craig, you are calling your blog TRUTH AND SHADOWS. I take it for granted that by this you mean that the TRUTH should come out in such force and intensity that it completely ‘overshadow’ the SHADOWS part of the title ….right!
    OK, i submitted four posts presenting nothing but absolutely True messages that cannot possibly be refuted, discredited nor disproved. These four posts were met with total hostility and abject dishonesty. Politely i asked the antagonist to clarify what part of the messages he so vehemently objected to. He refused to answer the direct question, but instead embarked on a tirade of insults.
    This showed me with all clarity that the antagonist could not in any way be associated with the TRUTH part of your title, but must, lacking other alternatives, be more in favour of the SHADOW side of this. And hence my simple and uncomplicated allusion to that name in my reply to SEO. (Hope you don’t miss the ‘blinky-eye’ smiley in the post referred to)!

    TRUTH is inviolable tied to honesty and fairness, justice and ….wisdom etc. etc., and therefore can never become corrupted.

    TRUTH belongs to no-where and to now-here, and stands completely alone. It can never be associated with any religion or metaphysics, but is available to anyone anywhere who so desires it.

    The TRUTH is: that if the antagonist should ever try his mean trickery over at ‘PILOTS4TRUTH’, he would be sent on a longer holiday, and asked not to return until he comes to his senses. Here he’s given a little friendly rap on the knuckles, and then of a sudden, TRUTH appears so sadly unimportant!

    So come now Craig, let the title of your blog shine with ever more brightness, so all the good people who over the last two years have left, might return again!

    Cheers

    1. Wrong! That’s not what the blog title means. And if you prefer the stricter moderation at Pilots, please go there. I’m not in the mood for your brand of condescension.

      1. [quote]Wrong! That’s not what the blog title means. And if you prefer the stricter moderation at Pilots, please go there. I’m not in the mood for your brand of condescension.[/quote]

        Wrong? Hope you don’t mean it’s the other way around …shit …that would be awful!! Wouldn’t mind to hear your version though, if you could be bothered?

        There’s no ‘strict’ moderation at Pilots4Truth and there never was. The few times Rob Balsamo resorted to this action his patience was challenged to the utmost, and i totally supported him in those rare cases.
        And of course, he has never deleted any posts. (Just thought i should mention this to his defense as well)!

        There was not even a whiff of condescension in my post above. Had i had such ‘inclinations’ in my being or personality, my dear wife would have divorced me long ago. 42 Years together now, and we’re still happily married. Surely that must count for something! No?

        Cheers

  41. “This land is mine, God gave this land to me…”~Exodus

    MORALS AND DOGMA v REASONED DEBATE AND NEGOTIATION

    There are strong and persuasive reasons behind the stricture of “the separation between church and state” in the philosophy of Liberty and Justice. As all of us familiar with the rules of critical thinking and proper debate know, “appeals to authority” are logical fallacies that are shunned for just purposes. An appeal to the authority of a “God” is the ultimate of such a logical fallacy.

    There are religionists who insist that ‘secular reason’ is just another form of “religion” [“Humanism”], and that the philosophy of Liberty simply replaces “God” with man as the supreme authority in the universe. And those making this claim call this the ultimate sin. They claim that this is the work of “the devil”. But this argument is where reason dies and dogma reigns as king. This line of thinking is the genesis of religious war, of Allah verses Yahweh, of “my God is bigger than your god”, and the breakdown of a rational structure of civilization replaced by the barbarism of the gods of war, and the credo of “Might Makes Right”.

    It is this credo that embraces the idea that ‘means are justified by ends’ that spawns Realpolitik and the divisions of ‘Exceptionalism’ and base fear and loathing of “other”, manifest as xenophobia and racism.

    Dialog is of critical necessity if the world is ever to have peace. Dogma is the end of dialog, it rebukes discussion by ‘Moral Authority’ – not reason.

    This is a summary of why I reject sermonizing in favor of reasoned debate.

    \\][//

    1. And you call this reasoned debate that you offer? Surely you jest, but the humor is most lacking, so try again, and BTW, what prompted this totally off the mark rant of yours?

  42. What is an insult? Are all insults created equal? What about insults to our intelligence?

    I think the subject is more nuanced than most would assume, and certainly more subtle than my detractors would suggest.

    “What is the Law?” … “no spill’t blood”

    \\][//

    1. What is an insult, you ask? Ha, you are the insult here, always gibberish off topic. You have been asked to stay on topic, but you have no respect for those of us who are constantly bored with your nothingness offered as intelligence, but always coming up short except in your own enlarged egocentric wasted mind. Now, back on subject: what solutions do you offer to the mess in the middle east, you know, the mess you blame Israel for, holding Hamas blameless, as expected of you?

  43. Religion is dead, or more correctly, religion is presently going through the throes of dying, and the end result is inevitable. The ‘house’ was built on sand, the sand is shifting, and the ‘house’ is falling. I find no reason to gloat about this fact. Let religion die in peace.

    Because of “the shock and awe” Iraqi wars, 9/11 and the tension between Iran and USA/Israel, i decided back in 2007 to prove to the world once and for all that every single human being survive ‘death’, thereby showing what utter insanity and madness it is for human beings to kill and murder each other in absolute senseless wars.

    That was met with the usual ridicule. In April 2010 i tried again, but this time things went much better. Some amazingly wonderful people kept the thread going i started over at Pilots4Truth. I was over the moon when the visitor count reached reached 1000. Today, and 47 pages later, the visitor count has reached over 92000 and still going strong day by day by day. I must have done something right, as not one single murmur of dissent is to be found in any of the pages. In a debate forum, this must be the first time in its relatively short history that this has ever happened, i think!

    Why not discuss or debate the present conflicts, while having in mind that all the waring parties inevitably sooner or later will meet each other again, but under some very different circumstances? And that the various “leaders” only got a very “bleak future” to look forward to?? Have they not, all of them, been told again and again that they should not kill ….that what they sow they shall reap ….that they should do to others what they wish should be done to themselves, when they too are destitute and suffering?

    Preaching? Of course not. Its all focking common sense we’re talking about and nothing else!

    Cheers

    1. TM, good post; too bad Rogue Dog will attack and try to make it something else, as he is not getting all the attention that he thinks he deserves.

      1. “TM, good post; too bad Rogue Dog will attack”~Sims

        What bullshit this is Sims, using the future tense in this comment when you are writing on August 21, weeks after the majority of the commentary in this thread has been made.

        You really believe that the lucid observer reading this thread isn’t going to see you for the agent provocateur that you are? You use the word “attack” while calling me a “dog” – what blatant hypocrisy Sims.
        \\][//

  44. “i decided back in 2007 to prove to the world once and for all that every single human being survive ‘death’”~Tamborine

    A very bold claim (boast?) indeed.

    But why are you not satisfied with 92000 hits?
    And can you substantiate this number?

    Do you take more care with your syntax? That is, is it not more grammatically proper to say that; “every single human being *SURVIVES* ‘death’”?

    So, this is to say that you have proven reincarnation. I am sure there are many here among us who are curious as to such ‘proof’. I am certain that many in the various clergies and sciences would be interested in testing such “proofs” as you may have offered.

    So, at any rate, offer the URL to your proofs. Some here may be interested in reading the article of proofs for themselves.

    \\][//

    1. I cannot imagine that any reader here would be interested!
      If such a person could be found, he or she could use Google and in the debate forum go straight to post #11 on page 1 in my thread, where the form the proof will take is specified. From there i could then give further guidance if the person would still like to continue.

      Cheers

      1. “Tamborine” claims to have proven reincarnation. But at the same time he claims that it is not ‘religious’, nor ‘preaching’. Which is in itself a misapprehension of language on his part; as ‘reincarnation’ is certainly in the realm of theology.

        “THEOLOGY 1 : the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God’s relation to the world.~Merriam-Webster Dictionary

        \\][//

        1. As said before, the aim was to prove once and for all whether all human beings survive ‘physical death’ or not. Nothing more and nothing less.

          It’s therefore just a very simple question of either/or, yes or no, do we or don’t we.

          The answer became a resounding YES.

          Cheers

        2. You don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about TM. You don’t even understand that the question you are pretending to answer is a theological proposition.

          So it is most certain that you have proven nothing but the depths of your own arrogance and faith in your own subjective opinions.

          Opinions, by the way that have no place on this thread, as you have been told more times than is reasonable for you to ignore.
          \\][//

          1. I am not seeing red, I am actually in a state of wonder at your incomprehension and blithering nonesense.
            \\][//

        3. Rouge Dog, please stop your constant attacks on everyone you find disagreement with, meaning that aren’t buying your ranting gibberish. You have, repeatedly, shown yourself to be be nothing more than a narcissistic bully, with no positive purpose in life and certainly nothing relevant to the topic at hand.

      2. Oh Jesus Christ, Holy Mother Mary and all the cacti needles of Tucumcari Tamborine man!

        No link? No mas!
        \\][//

    1. Exactly Mr Hufferd,

      I would advise no more words than the link to this majestic “proof”.

      I am dubious, considering the sampler of this “proof” given on T&S.
      \\][//

    2. James, as usual, and always, with no exceptions, he strays from the topic to feed his own agenda, that of a sick minded egoist. You will never get through to him, as he is much more intelligent than anyone else here, or so he thinks.

    1. Well James I am curious as to TM’s redefinition of the terms, ‘religion’ and “preaching”. But again I agree with you that nothing more of this gerrymandering of the borders of this topic should be countenanced.

      Leave your frocking frock at the door TM, if you would.
      \\][//

  45. On the contrary, it’s a highly interesting subject, of vital interest to everyone alive, and I suspect we’ll know its answer one by one in the by and by. But not here. Why pull it in here, of all places?

  46. And the only thing it has to do with our topic is your slash-and-burn, leave no prisoners, destroy the recalcitrant interlocutor style of rhetorical exchange. We’re not going to argue this abstruce unrelated topic. Redirection is the bane of idle minds.

    1. Exactly who is this last post at 1:14 PM directed at Mr Hufferd? You should be specific as to whom it is you speak to when the comment is disconnected from the stream such as this one.
      \\][//

    1. Mr Hufferd,

      I would have assumed that you were directing that comment at TM, as he is the one who as introduced the issue that is not topical here. And we have both responded to it, so you cannot accuse me of extending it solely on my own.

      So my question is, why this sudden attack on me? I know you have been biting at the bit to make such a slash-and-burn lunge at me, as I made note of from your “Deflect always” comment of AUGUST 2, 2014 AT 11:41 AM.

      Now Craig was very clear that he wanted us to “stay off the personal attacks,” and now out of the blue you come off with this load of holier than thou bullshit, accusing me of what you just did yourself.

      \\][//

    1. No Hufferd, I had to ask because the tread marks are obviously from your own pair of shoes. That is a pair of ‘sneakers’.
      \\][//

      1. Gee, Rogue Dog, did you just figure that out? I mean, you really don’t have anything to discuss with anyone here, do you? So, does that mean you will put your tail between your legs and leave this thread? Could we be so lucky? Somehow, I doubt it.

    1. And the Rouge Dog took it with him, just like the good troll that he is, only caring for his own entertainment, the truth be damned!

  47. US Senate passes $225 million in emergency funding for Israel’s Iron Dome 1 Aug 2014
    “The Senate overwhelmingly approved an emergency measure early Friday that could give 225 million in additional revenue to Israel for the country’s Iron Dome missile defense system. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada) received unanimous consent from his colleagues Friday morning when he asked them to consider approving the measure, The Hill reported. An attempt one day earlier by the Senate to approve funding for the system had failed. Next, the House of Representatives will be tasked with weighing the request, which if passed will put nearly a quarter of a billion dollars towards Israel’s missile defense system as that country continues its campaign against Hamas in Gaza City.”

    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/video/israeli-bombardment-destroys-mosque-university-123035557.html

    \\][//

  48. Well as far as the ultimate trajectory of “Eratz Israel”, it would be that we are headed to PLANET ZION. This is essentially what is promoted in the Protocols, and the agenda of the NWO. In other words a world of total despotism ruled by psychopathic Khazarian maniacs.

    We are not so far off from such fruition now. The might of the twin garrison states, Amerika-Israel has two major campaigns running at this moment, the one this thread is dedicated to, the decimation of the Palestinians, and the second is the provocation of Russia in the very homeland of the Khazar’s that spawned the phony Ashkenazim “Jews” who invaded Palestine in the 1940s.

    It is a near certainty now that MH-17 was shot down, not from a ground launched BUK missile, as propagated by the Amerikan government and media, but that the plane was shot down by 2 Ukrainian Government SU-25 Fighter Jets. There is a strong possibility that it was an attempt assassinate Putin, who had flown a similar course in a similar plane that same day.
    \\][//

  49. I will note that Hufferd is trying his best to provoke me yet again with his harassing juvenile quips.

    The question is, am I really the target here? Or is it perhaps Mr McKee himself. There seems to be a concerted effort here to manipulate Craig into instating full moderation of T&S again, to spoil the free exchange of ideas by abusing that privilege.
    Both TM and Hufferd have completely ignored Mr McKee’s injunction to keep to the general topic here and to stop the personal attacks. Hufferd is tickling himself pink with his jejune anal hurlant, while TM is continuing to blither on about his theological quackjabber about reincarnation.

    I again object and call for an end to this madness.
    \\][//

    1. If you really want an end to this madness, the madness that you, yourself, has caused, then leave here and don’t come back, thus doing the few lovers of truth and honesty still here a favor.

  50. Do you want to go back and count how many comments in a row you made today that were totally off both your trolley and the topic, while you were urged in vain over and over and over to climb back on, o all-time master of the hurlant you know so intimately?

    1. I would note that Huffert is like piss calling the lemonade yellow with his current comment, which has nothing to do with the topic in any vague way whatsoever but is again a limp excuse of a provocation.
      \\][//

  51. Mr Hufferd has already been advised not to address commentary to me.
    It is good news however that his already tepid energies have waned.
    It would be best for all concerned if he were to abandon his quest of distraction and provocation now.
    \\][//

  52. I have attempted to get the discussion back on track here, but Hufferd wants to play his pot-shot games here.

    His “There he goes again” bullshit came after a comment of mine that is certainly on topic with this thread – but that didn’t stop his wanking jive.
    \\][//

    1. Rouge Dog, if ever there was a bold-faced lie here, you just made it. You have done nothing to keep this thread on track, nothing! You are the one that keeps going off elsewhere, just as I would expect a troll to do. We see through your lies and deception.

      1. Hahahahaha… precious Sims, YOU the home invader, the Hasbara propaganda agent calling me a “troll” – Who’s “we” Kimosabe?
        Lies and deception is the motto of Mossad, who you clearly represent on this thread.
        \\][//

  53. Well it has become obvious that some people don’t take this seriously. This is truly tragic considering the monstrous situation at hand; the genocidal war against the Palestinians, wholesale slaughter of men, women, and children…

    Some on this forum seem to take it all as a joke, to see this forum as ‘party time’, to come on here and jerk around, be clowns and play games.

    I find this attitude abhorrent and despicable. And I for one am sick of dealing with such unconscionable jerks. If these interlopers really had any compassion they would take the issue at hand seriously and not be such flippant wiseguys.

    As far as I am concerned they can go to Hell.
    \\][//

    1. Rouge Dog, and some of us here hope you follow them into the hell you wish upon them, always attacking others as you do. And then there is you lies, half truths and conjecture we have to endure. Please, give it up and go make up to your last wife who had to put up with you for so long.

  54. Well sadly for me and I am sure for others as well this excellent discussion has been effectively derailed. I have my personal opinions about who and what is responsible for this but suffice it to say that many of us stuck to on topic posts and then a few of us did not and here we are now with yet another excellent discussion thwarted. I take personal offense each and every time this is done and I find T+S to be a constant target for Sunstein’s minions.

    I find some of the regulars here to be completely unable to offer anything but the most brief and superficial comments that are on topic while at the same time being capable of incredibly long obsessive compulsive off topic rants usually involving personal squabbles. I find this derailing activity to be disgusting and insulting and damaging to the issues under consideration here. To be quite frank about it if the topic is say (How to raise a healthy apple tree) I do not really want to discuss the Ukrainian crisis or who was the best musician in the 60s. I want to discuss apple trees and how to grow the best most productive ones.

    I just find it hard to believe that all the derailing that is done here is simply accidental. In fact I do not believe it is accidental at all. I just don’t know what else to say than I am hostile to anyone who trolls or derails topics here, I think those who do so are despicable or possibly just mentally ill. I just don’t “get it” why some individuals seem genetically unable to admit when they are wrong and change their opinions as a result of the revelation. In my opinion that particular failing that many humans have (the inability to admit mistakes) is the most damaging and costly trait there is.

    I am at a complete loss as to how to deal with this persistent problem without resorting to reprehensible action such as outright censorship. I have tried to ignore the offenders to the best of my ability but they persist as only an obsessive compulsive could day after day, thread after thread, year after year. I have come to the conclusion that some people are just mentally ill and cannot stop and never will stop. People such as Brian Good for example. The only thing I can see that might help is for a blog to be set up where each person had an (IGNORE) button which they could use as they saw fit so that those they choose to ignore would have their comments blocked from their view. I don’t know if such a blog option even exists but if not someone should invent it for sure.

    I am sick of polluting my mind and wasting my time reading useless garbage. Perhaps the ultimate goal of the trolls and operatives is for people like myself to quit posting on blogs at all so they can by default take over. In my opinion something close to that took place already with the 9/11 conference call. The list of participants tells the whole story. Anyway I just don’t have the time or energy to deal with this type of thing on an ongoing basis and it is clear that the way I am handling it now isn’t working so I am going back to the drawing board and will find for myself a better way to handle trolls and scoundrels. This new method will have to be as stress free for me as possible and will require as little of my time as possible. When I do come back here I will approach this problem in an entirely new way. For now I am tired of the BS and I am cutting my losses and my stress and taking a break.

    I will still faithfully read each and every article you put out Craig because I find your work to be excellent and worthy of attention.

    1. Hey Adam,

      I’m glad to finally see that comment posted. We have been waiting all day for it. Did you or Craig figure out what the hold-up was?
      There were no URLs in it, which is the common reason things to into the queue.
      \\][//

  55. I have through time developed an approach to a combined SYSTEMS-CONSPIRACY THEORY.

    I use the term ‘theory’ in it’s technical, or scientific sense. I have the time, temperament and energy for this. Many people do not have such time, temperament, energy, nor the focus and interest to get to the bottom of what has happened, is happening, and will likely happen in the sociopolitical sphere.

    My approach to conspiracy theory is based in systems science, because the conspiracy is systemic. It is not haphazard, uncoordinated, nor due to the personal initiatives of ‘bad apples’. The whole system and architecture of modern political power is corrupt and psychotic; anti-human and anti-truth.

    This is not a test, this is reality world wide.
    \\][//

  56. For a thorough explanation of some aspects of the systematics and psychology involved in the above-mentioned theory here invoked byMr Rogue, see POLITICAL PONEROLOGY by Amdrew M. Lobaczewski, transl. by Alexandra Chciuk-Celt, with commentary by Laura Knight-Jadczyk (Grande Prairie, AB: Red Pill Press), 1998, 2006.

  57. “There is a perverted logic to Israel’s repeated use of the Big Lie—Große Lüge—the lie favored by tyrants from Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin to Saddam Hussein. The Big Lie feeds the two reactions Israel seeks to elicit—racism among its supporters and terror among its victims.

    By painting a picture of an army that never attacks civilians, that indeed goes out of its way to protect them, the Big Lie says Israelis are civilized and humane, and their Palestinian opponents are inhuman monsters. The Big Lie serves the idea that the slaughter in Gaza is a clash of civilizations, a war between democracy, decency and honor on one side and Islamic barbarism on the other. And in the uncommon cases when news of atrocities penetrates to the wider public, Israel blames the destruction and casualties on Hamas.
    George Orwell in his novel “Nineteen Eighty-Four” called this form of propaganda doublethink. Doublethink uses “logic against logic” and “repudiate[s] morality while laying claim to it.” The Big Lie does not allow for the nuances and contradictions that can plague conscience. It is a state-orchestrated response to the dilemma of cognitive dissonance. The Big Lie permits no gray zones. The world is black and white, good and evil, righteous and unrighteous. The Big Lie allows believers to take comfort—a comfort they are desperately seeking—in their own moral superiority at the very moment they have abrogated all morality.

    The Big Lie, as the father of American public relations, Edward Bernays, wrote, is limited only by the propagandist’s capacity to fathom and harness the undercurrents of individual and mass psychology.”~Chris Hedges

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_israel_lies_20140803/#.U9_Gi8DTRuA.email

  58. Mr. Hybridrogue, I think these comments somehow end up getting presented badly out of order sometimes. I sent the one that unfortunately gives you so much offense here sometime early yesterday, when it was an appropriate answer to a question you had then raised. My deepest apologies, sir.

  59. Sometimes I feel like a school teacher who gives out a test and then slips out for a cigarette, only to return and find that the class has turned into Lord of the Flies. You guys are all poking at each other and provoking each other as if you want the discussion to careen into a ditch. I don’t think that you all really do want that, but that’s what it looks like sometimes. And that’s what happens.

    I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t. If I watch the comment threads like a hawk to catch any digressions or name-calling at the time they happen then I can’t get any other work done! And if I leave the discussion alone, then all hell breaks loose. Ruffadam is right.

    Also, I’m all for clever turns of phrase, but there are times when I think that the appearance of cleverness is more important to some people than simple statements of opinion are. Competing sarcasm is boring and tedious, and it drives readers and potential commenters away.

    Sometimes one of you says something off topic. Okay, that’s not ideal but I purposely give leeway because lots of interesting things can come up. But then someone else will attack back on the basis that the thread has been derailed. This then provokes several more sniping attacks back and forth. James, your comeback on the Obama thing was a good example. You could have ignored it or you could have defended Obama, if that’s what you wanted to do.

    Hybridrogue1, you called James a backstabbing prick RIGHT AFTER I TOLD PEOPLE TO STOP NAME CALLING! WTF?? I don’t care if you think he did it first. Jesus. And if a name is used and I don’t see it right away then it looks like I condone it!

    It seems that I will have to make a list of hard and fast rules. And then if any of those rules are flagrantly broken I’ll have to start suspending people’s posting privileges. The best discussions on this blog are when several people are involved (not just two or three), and lots of good information is put on the table. We have that sometimes but it never seems to last.

    1. Yes sir Craig, you are absolutely right, I was wrong to use such language. I did the blog, and myself a disfavor in doing so.

      I should know better than to allow my buttons to be pushed like that.
      Saying anymore would seem empty excuses at this point.
      \\][//

  60. I tried to pull out and beg off last night before the filth bombs I knew were coming really started to fall, but you saw well that worked out — bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb in message after message after message while I continued to beg mercy! Mercy!!

  61. So let’s all aspire to a higher standard of discourse even if someone else falls short of that. We can strongly argue our positions without getting personal. Because when we get personal the real discussion ends. I appreciate everyone’s co-operation.

  62. Israel Destroys Islamic University in Gaza 2 Aug 2014
    Missiles have been fired into the building over the last 20 minutes…The Israeli army has bombed the Islamic University of Gaza to the ground, according to Reuters. People were inside the university campus as the bombing began. University staff are trying to evacuate the people trapped under the rubble. The airstrike also hit ambulances which were trying to access the site. Hospitals are overwhelmed and they have warned the international community that they cannot continue dealing with the mounting cases.

    According to Gaza’s Ministry of Health, at least 17 people were killed and 90 wounded in the shelling of the Jabalia Elementary Girls School early on Wednesday morning.

    And when this gruesome attack finally ends – then what? We only wait for the next, and the next, until these demons finally drive all the Palestinians out of Palestine.

    I am sick at heart… it seems that evil has really won, and will win the final battle as well.
    \\][//

  63. hybridrogue1,
    If you’re truly “sick at heart” of all the evil in the world, why not join us who thinks that the only power strong enough to overcome its influence anywhere and everywhere, and what evil ‘itself’ consider its worst enemy – and what evil ‘itself’ fears the most – namely the power of the Light, which in all aspects, all prospects and all situations stand in so stark contrast to this gruesome power called Darkness?

    I think that we all should seriously ponder upon the implication of these words:
    “Murdering innocent women and children saves american and israeli lives”.

    This justification alone could start a third world war.

    Why not help nip it in the bud?

    Cheers

    1. Well because there was this beautiful tree, and now it is mulched and bleached and covered with ink. It came as a roll with a rubber band around it. I saw the reality of this and it began a long thought, that still goes on…and on …and on.

      Tears

      \\][//

  64. Bob, If you kick a sleeping dog, do you have a right to defend yourself? Yes, that’s what the Dome is for. Have you seen pictures of those “rockets”? They look like toys. To extend the analogy — you might even be able to re-win the dog’s trust with fairness and friendship. Never with threats and violence, unproportionate or not.

    1. I guess you forgot that those “toy” rockets, as you state, have actually killed innocent people and hurt others, either physically, financially or both. Your attempt at the sleeping dog analogy is not needed. I have repeatedly asked this question, and no one has even attempted to offer a rational reply, is: “What is Israel to do when assailed with 3500 rockets, “toy” rockets though they be?” And, what would you do if those rockets were falling on your land, and your home?

      1. How many Israelis killed by rockets? What’s the score vs. Palestinians killed? What would I do if a rocket hit my house or nearby? Get out of there and blame the perpetrator of the action — that being my own government if they’d unjustly egged on the “enemy” that responded. You probably think that Custer was wronged by the Sioux.

    1. Excuse me if I missed it, so either what was it again, or direct me to the date and time. However, I don’t think you answered my question at all, or I would have responded accordingly, but go ahead, try again and I will observe.

      1. I’ve repeated it at least five times now: If Israel would quit being control freaks and sincerely agree to sit down and negotiate with elected representatives of the Palestinians as equals, conceded to have all the same rights as Israelis to proportionately share the land, each nation with contiguous territory, openly accessible, and large enough to permit economic viability — which is what any nation would require — the impasse could be solved though a bit of compromise. Now, do you get it? Fairness begets the basic trust required.

  65. I repeat — to end the whole crisis, Israel needs to abjectly surrender to the Palestinian people to the extent of sincerely agreeing to negotiate with them as equals, with an at least equal right to the land of their heritage and forefathers, cheerfully agreeing to grant the nation of Palestine a substantial and contiguous part of it to establish their fully independent state, including full right of ingress and egress to comprise the basis of a viable economy. What nation would require less than that? Palestinians, even Hamas operatives, have stated that they have nothing against the Jewish people as Jews, but understandably begrudge as illigitimate the State of Israel which has dealt with them so extremely shabbily for the last 65 years. All the Palestinians want is what every nation wants. What would be wrong with that?

    1. You have missed a few things. There are those that support the idea of a two-state solution, and those that insist upon a one-state solution. Until that issue is resolved, nothing can move forward.

      And, as long as Hamas insists upon the total destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, the same ideology as Iran has, and supports Hamas with, then, again, nothing can move forward.

      But all that aside, you have still not answered my question as to what Israel should do when assailed by rockets from Hamas? And, what would you do if those rockets were landing in your yard and your home? You have totally sidestepped the issue.

      1. WHO is insisting on a one-state solution or some other formulation? I haven’t heard that raised by any involved party in a long, long time. Most at least say that a two-state solution is already taken for granted as a goal. I just heard a serious discussion of this point recently among Middle East experts on MSNBC last week. I think it’s already pretty generally accepted — perhaps the only point that is. Evidently, you haven’t been paying attention.

        And what should Israel do? I’ve told you ten times — The should surrender and say “Enough is enough! Okay! You win! Well will sit down and negotiate with you on equal terms!” And the rockets would stop. THIS TIME do you get it?

  66. Bob et al — Read HosaneZerousky, “Hamas is a Creature of the Mossad”, GLOBAL OUTLOOK, Summer 2002, citing Zeev Sternhell, historian, Hebrew University, Jerusalem. “Hamas was set up as a puppet to unify Israeli opinion on the militant side, while Israeli brutally suppressed Arafat’s moderate Fatah movement.”

    1. James, this is just more conjecture, but also totally beside the point, as this is 2014, not a past history lesson. The real question is what to do about the situation today, not what should have been done in the past, but wasn’t. And, again, what would you do if those rockets were falling on your yard and your home? Not one person has even tried to answer this question, although I have asked it about 25 times now.

      1. It’s NOT conjecture! It’s a statement of FACT from an insider, who happens to be a self-described super-Zionist himself, and may have been in on the decision when it was originally made. He’s not at all the sort to speak wildly or irresponsibly about his own familiar state apparatus.

      2. Sims has asked a question “about 25 times now” that falls completely out of the context of the present reality in Palestine, where the brutal aggressive power of a fully modern mechanized military is pitted against a civilian population without access to the bare minimum of the means for survival, let alone modern weaponry.
        Gaza has been mercilessly pummeled to the point that most Palestinians don’t even have houses. So the context in its proper aspect, the question would be: ‘What would you do if you didn’t even have a house because it was blown to smithereens by high-tech munitions dropped by a high-tech air force?’

        This is the reality on the ground in Palestine right now, not the dreamworld bullshit being promoted by this Hasbara agent Sims.
        \\][//

  67. But all 3500 (or is it 35000?) Hamas rockettes would stop and the proliferation of the hundred tunnels to boot — magically even — the minute Israel would sincerely pledge to follow the precept that is often called “The Golden Rule” (golden calf?) regarding them. Granon-teed.

      1. Bob, ever tried sincerity, humanity, and fairness yourself? Basically, that’s what the Palestinians are asking of the Israelis. (And you think integrity is just hogwash because it’s not realpolitik?

          1. This is disingenuous bullshit from Hufferd to compare me with this obvious Hasbara agent, who denies the relevance of history to the current situation of, not only Palestine but indeed the whole psychotic world.

            And I warned Hufferd not to provoke me with his squirrely bullshit, so he can’t claim I am coming out of the blue with this comment and “attacking” him again, nor plead for “mercy mercy mercy” like some squalling little girl.

            Hufferd is the one who finds himself aligning with assholes like Sims and then finding he has made a big ‘whoops’ and wonders why others might find him a bit of an opportunist and flake here.

            I am getting sick of these clowns who rag on my “ego” and claim I pretend to knowledge that I don’t have, and then turn around and call it an “attack” when I respond to such jejune bullshit.

            If Hufferd wants to respond to some jerk that he has belatedly recognized as a Zionist agent, he had best leave my name out of it.
            \\][//

            1. Hufferd is full of bullshit, I made the point perfectly clear, and he did exactly as I would assume he would do, squalls like a little girl.

              If he continues to use my name in vane I will continue to nail him on his bullshit. He is provoking me purposely and then complaining when I respond.

              A simple solution here, he can remove my name from his T&S lexicon.
              \\][//

  68. It is not allowed to change someone’s name for the purpose of mocking them. Bob, you may not have known this, but you do now, so please stop. No name calling and no mocking of names.

    1. Craig, I just now read your comments, and I was totally unaware of your rules, and since this is your thread, you have the unquestioned right to make the rules, and I totally respect that. That being said, why is it that my basic question goes unanswered: “What is Israel to do when assailed by 3500 rockets?

  69. Bob, you are on moderation until I assure myself that you will stop mocking people’s names (perhaps you haven’t seen my directive above) and launching vague attacks that don’t have a specific basis. If you have a point about something that has been written, then you may make it. But telling someone else to leave the blog is not allowed. And while I have no rule against flooding the blood with dozens of comments in one day, I’m considering one.

    1. Craig, once again, I tell you that I was totally unaware of your rules, but I have complete acceptance of them. I also will state once more that I read everything that T & S puts out and agree with most. I am frustrated here that no matter how many times I ask a simple question, it never gets answered, in fact, it is attacked by this Rogue person, adding insult to injury, but I see him continuing to get away with it. No fairness here, it seems.

      1. Bob, you state that you weren’t aware of the rules, and that’s fine. You ask for an answer to your question, which is also fine. And then, five minutes later, you write again and repeat the same things. Not necessary. You find no fairness here because you are attacked by Hybridrogue? Didn’t you attack him by calling him a liar? Perhaps you can refrain from attacking and I’ll do my best to create the fairness that you are hoping to see.

        1. Craig, Bob is clearly a Hasbara agent provocateur on assignment to create cognitive dissonance on blogs such as yours that are justly critical of the terrorist state of Israel.

          How many comments did he just make in the matter of a single day? His profile in indisputable.

          BTW, thanks for the heads-up on this matter.
          \\][//

  70. Fighting Al Qaeda by Supporting Al Qaeda in Syria: The Obama Administration is a “State Sponsor of Terrorism”
    By Prof Michel Chossudovsky — Global Research, August 22, 2014

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/fighting-al-qaeda-by-supporting-al-qaeda-in-syria-the-obama-administration-is-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism/5339728

    “A major transition in US counter-terrorism doctrine is unfolding.

    While Barack Obama, following in the footsteps of George W. Bush, remains firmly committed to waging a “Global War on Terrorism” (GWOT), his administration is now openly supporting selected rebel units in Syria which are part of the Al Qaeda network.

    Known and documented, Al Qaeda is a creation of the CIA, which has covertly supported the “Islamic Terror Network” since the heyday of the Soviet Afghan war.

    While Al Qaeda is a US sponsored “intelligence asset”, a “New Normal” has been established.

    An Al Qaeda affiliated organization, namely Syria’s Al Nusrah, is being supported “overtly” by the US President, rather than “covertly” by the CIA.

    Ironically, the pro-Israeli lobby was also actively involved in lobbying in favor of aid to jihadist rebels.”
    ____________________
    Now, I don’t want to hear a word from these clowns who deny history and the larger context that this bogus “War on Terrorism” has to the topic of this thread.

    The agenda of the US and Israel are linked together at the hip. Denying this is juvenile ignorance.
    \\][//

    1. […..]
      “While the “blowback” thesis is an obvious fabrication, it has nonetheless served to provide legitimacy to the “Global War on Terrorism”. With “overt” support channeled by the US government to an Al Qaeda affiliated organization, the blowback thesis falls flat, it is no longer credible.

      The evidence amply confirms that the CIA never severed its ties to the “Islamic Militant Network”. Historically, US covert support to terrorists was a safely guarded secret, unknown to the broader public. Moreover, the CIA would never channel its support directly. It would proceed through its intelligence counterparts in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.”~Prof Michel Chossudovsky
      ____________________________

      As I myself have insisted for years, “Blowback” is a ‘modified limited hangout’, or a ‘revetment’ in Intel jargon.
      \\][//

      1. So perhaps Hufferd has some excuse for calling the information in Chossudovsky report, “verbal diarrhea!”… perhaps simply the fact that it is I who posted it, and he feels the need to challenge any and everything I say and do because my simple presence here shatters his delicate PhD ego.

        After all, he has that precious ‘diploma’ and his glorious ‘doctorates degree’ – he MUST be smarter than I, look how many more years of indoctrination he has had! Surely that must count for something?? Surely!

        Oh yes indeed surely….{grin}
        \\][//

        1. Emotionally charged but Lacking substance. Hufferd offers empty anal hurlant yet again. Just blasts of bundled angst.

          Because? Because? Because…he has no real answer for his latest outburst.
          \\][//

          1. I better brace myself — with history as a guide, there’ll likely be fifteen foul follow-ups, or fifty flaming foul-ups to this one, each one more hellacious than the rest, before this thankfully one-of-a-kind poofter’s frantic furricane of fetid fed-upitshness is aalaciously sated! With my head the target of 3,500 fukishimas of filth to follow! (It does make quite a jolly spectacle, actually… So, get out the popcorn and seltzer).

  71. Dear Mr. Bob Sims,

    Out of very personal reasons — namely the spamming of my inbox –, I kindly request that you change your tactics.

    I can find the humor in your accomplishment so far.

    At 326 total comments, you’ve managed to bump your contribution to 88 (27%). You’ve knocked Mr. Hufferd into third position with 62 (19%). But Mr. Rogue still leads with ~110 (33.7%). You three alone now amount to 79% of the participation: a three prong pincer.

    But that doesn’t mean I’m laughing… after my phone suffers massive downloads and after cleaning out its inbox.

    Going forward if you are earnest in your efforts to engage others in a serious discussion, you will consider my advice from August 21, 2014 at 6:09 pm and then make these modifications: “Gather then Sow (Once).”

    Before I explain what that means, tactically your productive efforts were rude and obnoxious to all who ever participated and likely subscribed, and this rating comes before any consideration of your content or position. Were it not for your previous involvement in the conversations, your fresh “overlay” of shot-gun comments to nearly all dangling points of previous discussions could be labeled a bad-ass Sunstein technique to re-write the tenor of the entire forum.

    Assuming the earnestness of the goals of your endeavors, a more productive way to re-channel your energy to achieve them is “Gather Then Sow (Once).”

    Gather off-line in a text file all of the posted words of a participant (or participants) to whom you want to respond. Remember to capture who said it, when (e.g., time stamp), and where (e.g., the URL) in your due diligence. Save this as a source file. Who knows when you might want to reference it later?

    Hints on Gathering:

    (1) Doing a Save-As from your browser can capture everything all in one go, but will require more effort later to extract and clean-up for other purposes.

    (2) A useful technique is to highlight/copy the displayed browser text and then paste into Notepad or an editor. This will strip out formatting and links that something like Word can preserve in a paste operation (unless you do a paste-special.)
    (3) Firefox, at least, allows you to highlight text in a browser and then right-click “view source” that can be copied and then pasted into your authoring application.

    Once this source material is gathered and saved in one file, make a copy of this file to serve as the starting point for your well-thought-out rebuttal. Organize it and trim it down to the passages from the participant(s) in question to which you’ll be responding. Put appropriate formatting (e.g., double quotation marks, HTML mark-up) around each individual quotation passage. In between each quotation that tweaks your ire, have a field day with your commentary!!! Remember to attribute from whom each quotation comes with the time-stamp (and/or URL if you aren’t using your two freebies).

    Once this gathering has been consolidated and then expanded with your words of wisdom, Sow It (Once). Post it to the forum as a single comment top-level comment or as a single comment to each participant being addressed.

    “Gather then sow (Once).”

    Everyone’s inbox [mobile gmail] will thank you.

    P.S. Just because I am offering top-dollar advice to you (and all others) on how to improve your game and avoid blatant spamming actions that could foul you out, …

    Just because I am #1 on Mr. Rogue’s shit list and you’re feeding him some of his own medicine,…

    Does ~not~ mean that I am voicing agreement with your content or position, Mr. Sim.

    For the brief moments when my eyes stopped spinning from scrolling through your dump-truck of comments on my phone, I was not in agreement with everything I spot-check read. I had much less disagreement with — Surprise, surprise! — Mr. Rogue’s position and comments… Exceptions are Mr. Rogue’s comments already flagged legitimately as “bullying”.

    Because Mr. Ruff and Mr. Rogue one-forum-over have been using their pincer to “charge [me, SEO] of being an agent of agitprop,” I will take humorous advantage of it here.

    LISTEN UP EVERYBODY!!! I’m pulling Q-Group rank!!!

    To all active Sunstein Agents: Consider the above “Gather and Sow (Once)” an order! It’ll make all of your arguments against other participants’ point much easier to follow on a mobile device through email notification, because it demands that you provide context!

    This is not Twitter! This is not Facebook! This is Truth & Shadows and demands a higher level of discourse!

    Write off line and contemplate well before posting! Do not be in a hurry to post!

    Agent Sims: 80 comments in 24 hours is unacceptable spamming that outs your ass if it doesn’t eventually bounce your ass! An easily avoidable technicality is gonna defeat the agenda!

    P.P.S. [ON-TOPIC COMMENT] I ain’t no god-damn expert on Gaza, Israel, Palistine, and shit, but like most participants, I have a high school diploma (plus or minus). Israel is fucked up and is fucking up, despite the PR spin. As an empathetic person, Israel’s over-blown over-reaction disgusts me and has me siding with the underdog. Israel fucks everyone else up, too. [If the American government were to conspire to stage event(s) to move its nation in radical directions ala PNAC “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” and wanted to plausibly deny its finger-prints in the false-flag actions, Israel’s Mossad would top the outsourcing list to help.]

    //

    1. Before also be hit with “the agitprop label”, let me present my [ON-TOPIC COMMENT] here as well:

      Even without any ‘high school diploma’, i too think that the Israeli government is bad-ass mad. Also think that Hamas is bad-ass mad. Also think that the Syrian conflict is bad-ass mad. Also think that the Iraqi conflict is bad-ass mad.

      But overshadowing the lot of those; the bad-ass maddest of them all? is the country once known by the name “US of A”, and that now has degenerated to be nothing but an ‘oxymoron’!

      “God bless America”? Nah, won’t happen, not the way that country is going!

      Cheers

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